The Mind Illuminated archive

Stronghold 21 March 2010

Automated transcription

Well it's a beautiful day. And you have more people coming to join us. Wonderful. Okay. What we usually do Before we sit is we have a little session of don discussion. And so I invite you to just Thank you. What questions regarding the domino you may have on your mind and like some more clarification on? Or questions about your meditation practice things that you're experiencing that you might like to know more or to have some advice on how to deal with problems the or things that you're experiencing and regarding the v problems.

So please, just whatever you would like to bring out. Yes. Question. Want put your thing on? I think it is on the required. So The right. Recorded. Joe. Yeah. Hey. This is on. I I'm I'm I'm I'm technically on. On. Yeah. It's a question about opposed calculate. Day. Yeah. In that's way. Absolutely. Mh. Yes. And you see, traditionally, late people have taken five pre of first five that we took here. And the the there are different versions of the second set of five pre. But for example, once somebody decides to become a monastic for their novice, and I'll take ten preset.

But the ten here are those of what's called a dedicated late practitioner or. Bo means one who sits near to the buddha. And so the is this involves an additional level of commitment. And so as an new prosecutor one would keep these pre at all times, and would take refuge in and the buddha quite quite regularly. When when at whenever necessary at the very least. But for all of those late people who for whatever reason of their own adhere only to the first five of pre steps. Then the repository is a period in which to basically to practice a little bit more stringent.

You post tat day was originally was King Bizarre requested... It was a minnesota. And one of the kings requested of the buddha that something like this be established. And so he said that they they didn't have a kind of calendar that we do now. So he said that on each of the quarters of the moon one day would be set aside. Tradition became that the that the ordained pictures and communities, the monastic. Would invite late in London for a period of twenty four hours to receive teaching and to good practice to do meditation basically to spend a period of time as if they were had had taken full vows.

And the first quarters the moon is approximately once a week. And so post our day is really quite consistent with the usual western practice of keeping a sabbath. Right? A holy day. And it's a wonderful idea that for for one day a week that you would practice your spiritual tradition and a little more fully committed and mindful way than you might at other times. In Buddhist countries, what happens nowadays is people, local people often go to the monastery and and they'll eat there and they'll stay there and they'll meditate.

Negative donald talks on this day. So it's it's a little more intensive than the western, you know, go to church for an hour and or or go to the senate dog or something like Chat, who we But that's the whole idea behind it. And so it's a tradition that has been kept in those countries since the time of the buddha, It just seems like Well, I give a little bit of our history to I I was here practicing and it was just kind of a private thing. And then people started asking me to teach and if they could come and meditate with me.

And so we we started doing that one day a week. And for many years, we did every Monday, it was monday meditation and people could come come meditate it's not Monday. And somebody pointed out that well a lot of people would like to come, but, you know, we have to work on Monday. You know, and up to that point, it was just a day that I had set aside that I would... That Nancy and I would to vote to our own practice and invite anybody who wanted to to join us. And then, you know, i said well, you know, this is basically the post the practice.

So let's move it to Sand Call post id and formal horizon. That's that's where we accent. Yes. So could you speak to about taking about dials ups. Yeah. Well, u What has... Traditionally some becomes someone becomes a buddhist. Have a a brief little ceremony that involves taking refuge in the buddha and taking those first five presets formally taking down. And i I... In the time of the buddha when somebody became a d two was called the going force. They would shaved their head. So wow in this in in this procedure for lakers and usually, what happens is that whoever is is giving refuge.

Will take and cut off a locker of here and it's symbol symbolic, right? Rather than than shaping their whole pit. And then they will take their refuge and the the pre and a formal and in a very brief small formal. Ceremony. And then there came by... There came between the d who announced everything and kept all of the the rules of the Wan which are there's actually almost three hundred rules that the keep them and when I and they don't at least traditionally, they don't own any kind of some variations in that nowadays.

But And and the late person who just takes to five pre. Between now, those two there grew up some other sort of intermediate state one of which was the dedicated late practitioner and plastic who takes ten pre. Basically... And and originally, they were the pre of of a novice month. But those the those latter five research, don't make a lot of sense. I mean, then he had made a lot of that may have made more sense, twenty five hundred years ago. So they had been modified over time, but originally, there were things like not wearing Garland and I'm not per not attending.

Dance and musical performances not entertainment meds. No. No clue after. Yeah. Not that's right Now eating, not eating after... Six. And not owning not possessing money gold or silver So anyway, what has happened is that there's the the pros who usually take a modified form. Of the second set of five pre, then it represents a greater commitment to the da and the practice of the darn while still being late persons in the world still. So working still raising families and things like that. And then there's actually another intermediate stage that was developed called on a guy.

So you you call that the Pho, Ag and the next stage because the vas still owned things. And so then there was ana is who weren't actually and didn't follow rules and I have But They gave up all the worldly things became wander they usually were light rather than the colored robes and and we teach the dormant practice, but they they were psychic wonders at wonders rather than following the and eye being part of the organized community. So these are the different levels of practitioner sort of evolved over time with variations in different different traditions in different countries.

But the idea really and all of them is that you take these pre which are the foundation as you practice and you build upon them to bring about their process of spiritual growth and development, studying the madonna at anyways. The first five pre is actually very foundational. Do you look at those and the first four of them can be simplified in just simply cause no harm to other beings. You examine that that's really what the first sport. They're just a set of rules that en the different kinds of ways that through desire and version and that we engage in behaviors that are harmful to our fellow beings.

With the addition of the shift, which is to avoid... I actually do I need to remind anybody you're tell anybody what the first sport pre are six lost over them so quickly. You'd like you know. I okay. First is the is not harming or killing other things to try to to do your best to refrain from that. And then the second is not to take what is not freely given. The third is not to engage in sexual misconduct. And the fourth is not to engage in wrong speech. Which means false speech, our speech, divisive speech or idle speech and gossip.

The fifth is to refrain from engaging in activities that intentionally dull the mind, which could include alcohol and drugs has been nowadays, you could say the same thing about the Internet, computer games and, you know, those are all kinds of other ways that we have of doubling our minds as well. Television. Right. In television. Television. Yeah. Television, things like that. So it's The fifth one involves it does involve not harming to others in that When we don't lines, we don't have the ability to keep these other pre to the same degree.

It also involves harming ourselves. Because when we realize that the greatest benefit that can be achieved is our spiritual practice. And the greatest harm that we do for ourselves is to leave ourselves down and the ignorance that is responsible for our suffering and for conflicting. Such right now Now there's then another way of looking at this fifth preset is that it's two not harm yourself as well as well. As matter, like, all of the first four, if you don't keep those pre you're harming yourself, is the only reason that we would not keep those pre is that we're allowing ourselves to act out of compulsions of desire and inversion.

And in doing so, we reinforce and strengthen the hold that those have over us. We're we're conditioning our every single time. We repeating in activity. We're conditioning ourselves. To be more likely to do that in the future. Under the same and and different circumstances. So another way that you could regard the first the first five pre is to? We're just discussing pre right now. So just make yourselves comfortable continue. Another way that we've been entered with these five pre is is don't cause harm to any other veins, or to yourself.

And then the latter five pre are a further development of that. Look at how especially the the sixth one is of course quite relevant if you're a late person because you're earning little living. Look at what you do to earning on a living and make sure that you are not indirectly and inadvertently violating any the preceding pre. That's the preset not to engage in sources of livelihood other. Then the next is of course not to act out of ill will, or take satisfaction and the assortment of others, which is something that we do quite easily and we can just to deflect out sometimes and say oh.

Yeah. The ill will arises and and we act out of that and we justify it and we said to see well this is not... This... The... I'm keeping right pre. This is totally justified for me you behave this. Right? So this is this is being a little more specific. If there's ill wheel in your mind, don't act on it. No matter what. Now matter how justified it sounds. No matter how much sensitive it made. And the other thing that we do is we have resentment my first time on. Is we enjoy it when things go wrong for them.

Right? And that too is that's a that's a very harmful thing to do for so. Acting out of practicing gene generosity acting out of loving kindness and reaction and our interaction or other people. This is this is another very important thing to do. As part of our spiritual for practice and our spiritual development. If we go back to the first five pre, they are not simple rules. They're not Thou shalt not. Yes. They are they are an invitation to examine everything you do and to keep penetrating to a deeper deeper level.

And and exploring what the potential of that is. On not harming could also mean when there's the opportunity to protect someone else. What do you do. Not taking what is free the what is not freely given. Can also mean that you go out of your way to respect and protect the the property of others. It's not just not stealing. Sexual misconduct, you know, doesn't refer to just a simple physical act of having some sort of sexual interaction with Somebody, but all of the different ways that... Well first, you can see that sexuality can be used in a non physical way to manipulate other people to essentially to abuse other people and more subtle versions of sexual misconduct. you know how that goes right?

And it's two. So you realize well, that's the actual misconduct too. And we started thinking of it in those terms then. It's really all about our interactions with other people, you know, forget the male female aspect of it. You know, when we use personality characteristics, dominance, passive aggressive behavior, and manipulation and things like this. You know, There's no as you practice this pre. There's no reason for it to stay limited into the context of sexuality. As far as wrong speech goes, the the buddha gave us guidelines, you know.

What is wrong speech? Just the role before you saying anything? Is it true? That's yes. That's the beginning. Then, Is it necessary? Or you does do you really have... Do you really have to say this? Because how often had you heard maybe or even had your own thought but well i'm keeping the pre perceptive right speed. So I have to tell this person what a jackass they are. You know, Know is it that's And will it do any good? Actually, that was a second? Will it do any good? If it's not gonna do any should, keep your mouth shut.

And also, is it necessary? And if it's not necessary, keep your mouth shut. So it's recognizing all of the more subtle ways, but speech can be used and abused and and ways are not consistent with spiritual practice. So the the latter pre are reinforcing the first pre and inviting us to to take them deeper and carry them further. And then there's a preset sub too to to remain mindful in all parts of life, not that you sit down for an hour every day in practice mindfulness nice or under certain circumstances, but to be mindful at all times.

To follow the full path all day every day and to invite you to do that through study meditation and reflection. And this is these is like these are code words for taking the dha to the next level because the way that we come to... Do the way that we use the dha for ourselves. As we begin by listening to people teach by reading books, maybe listening to recordings and, you know, videos and whatever sources. What we're getting there is somebody else's understanding. So that's the first level. Let's that's the study level.

That's the listen level. The hearing. The second is where you reflect on this and you you now have to make it yours as you have to own it. You have to raise your questions, your challenges and answer them. You have to overcome your doubts. You have to give up... Like, I could or any teacher can tell you something in a very persuasive sounds so logical sounds so reasonable that you lock out commits that this must be true. But then you examine it and does it fit with your experience? Does it is it truly logical and rational?

According to what your mind works when you penetrate in into a deep and and often it's not. So you have to you'd have to make it yours. You have to overcome doubt. You have to understand it in in your way. That's the next stage. And then there is the direct experience, you know, in terms of these darn. It's not enough to understand the natural actually. But you have to experience directly. And that's where the meditation part comes in. It's through united. Well, meditation really allows us to do all of these things.

Meditation gives us the skill to be mindful by their times. Meditation gives us the opportunity the clarity of mind to penetrate into dha questions and and satisfy ourselves as to the truth or false of them. But also it is a means by which we create the kind of mind and ourselves that is capable of experiencing these truths directly. Right. So So really, these pre these ten presets are. En the the basic process of diamond practice. So when you take those pre, you take... You're making a commitment to work with them as a tool.

They're not a set of rules that you blindly follow. Their set of tools that you learn to use and you keep using over and over again. And you you keep finding new and different ways to apply them and guide them. Another way to look at the pre chefs is that a really good way to practice the dha would be to live with this question always in your mind with every thought and everything you say and when you do Well would buddha do? What what an enlightened beam do, How did an enlightened being respond to this.

Right? And really what the pre sips and also the productions which we haven't, which we haven't mentioned here this morning. But I I see the pre. The pre are actually part of the enzyme perceptions a little... The perfection. The perfect perfection are a little bit larger packaged, but what they really are, is there a set of guidelines to help you. To decide what would an enlightenment being do and so try to act and think and behave why can't and like dane. Try to act and say can be as though you know we're no longer attached to your viewer felt as you as as though you had realized the emptiness of cell.

As though you come to the realization to the degree to which Your personal reality is a product of your mind with its conditioning. And also to think and speak and act as though through abandoning your attachments to sell. That you had achieved a true compassion where you care about others as much as you do. Yourself, because that's really what these come down to in terms of ways of behaving. So by the way look out is a pre set of guidelines, to assist you doing a practice of of trying to speak and think and act like at a enlightened being answer questions clinton.

That's when we realize that We not the kind of self that we think we are. And that we are a mind that is entirely the product causes and conditions. And every every and every act conditions that mind and creates the kind of being you'll experience yourself as. In the future, we're always creating so always creating her son. And the unfortunate thing is that that we early on acquire certain un hold patterns, modes of behaving, and then they keep getting reinforced and reinforced may portion make it harder and harder to change.

But the wonderful thing about. The fact that the experience of being used is the result of this conditioning is that you can change it. It's not fixed. It's completely totally p. And so if you start thinking and speaking in acting like like bank, you're creating a completely different kind of conditioning. Port your mine, and you will begin to experience fruits for that. Good morning, Tucker. Heck. Dicey. That it all worked out. And I'll, i that. We made it to the service station. One drop of gas left in the tank.

Well, when it works out that way it drops as good as a hundred gallon. So are there some other questions? Yes. I had question something you're saying towards end the last answer about developing e and then compassion sort of going with that. That my experience has been sort of the opposite that a few years ago I had sort of too much compassion. It was making me very reactive and weak and kinda. And so I've been practicing to develop but there's like no I don't mind things as much and it's like...

It feels like it's going the opposite direction from compassion. Well, what we've mean by in the context of the dha can be mistaken or ind or un feeling as things like that. And that isn't really what we need. What we've mean is non reactivity. You know, you said, that the more compassionate you felt the more reactive you felt. And that's why compassion does need to be combined with e, which is an non reactivity. But the style point is that the... It's not that you cease to react because you have any there there's any decrease at all in your sensitivity, to pleasure or pain of your yourself or anybody else.

But that the compulsive reactions, but that we call craving, desire and inversion, don't arise in response to that So stoic difference and emotional withdrawal. Are not they're not going to achieve the result that we want what we're after to something. That is a little subtle and a little harder to achieve. And the only way that we can achieve it is by recognizing the nature of our reactivity that it is, it is a conditioned reaction. And it does fit that definition of craving. It's desire and a version.

It is what that condition reaction is. And so the first the first step is to become aware of it nature has does the the nature of your reactivity has desire in a version. And so What happens when we see somebody suffering and we have we have compassion if we take that suffering as our own, we react to it in the same way that we would if it were our own, which is developing a strong aversion to the suffering. And that's where the reactivity is. So we know that that's not the answer. On the other hand.

Compassion means having the heartfelt fill. Wish to do whatever you can to relieve the suffering of the other and to take whatever action you can. If it's possible, they're really suffering of the other. So again picture what it's like to have to be freed of the comp of a version, which would cloud your thinking possibly cause you to bring about inappropriate reactions. And instead have have a profound wish and intention to do whatever you could, but with the complete clarity that comes from not being afflicted by the comp of the version.

Can you imagine that? No. But it's early. I didn't have any coffee. It's not idiot an easy thing. And the question comes up all the time about and enlightened being. And i enlightened being the the nature of an Enlightened being is compassion, true compassion, let's considered deep compassion. And at the same time, and it enlightened being, is it does not suffer at all. And so very often questions cannot, well, you know, if somebody I love the suffering, how can I not suffer? Right? And... And and it's only...

It... This is really only possible for an enlightened being at the level of or state enlightenment. Because at that stage, the person is free of the inherent sense of being separate itself and free of the illusion that these other beings for whom they have compassion and fort whom would act for whose benefit that they would act our separate so. The whole all craving is rooted in the delusion that we are separate self existent cells. Ultimately. And until you understand what that means and until you're able to touch into that to some degree.

It's going to be difficult for you to understand how could how could you simultaneously have an imp state of joy and freedom from suffering and at the same time have infinite compassion because they seem like their contradictory impossible. And they are contradictory impossible from the ordinary point of view that I am a set itself. In a world of separate self existing things, including other separate cells who suffer the same way I do. And that view nec really when you examine it, it makes it. Absolutely unavoidable that you experience cravings desire and version.

That is the ignorance that is the root of craving. And so long as you have created. As long as you have desired and inversion, there will be dissatisfaction. Which dissatisfaction is unhappiness. And you'll have subtle dissatisfaction and you'll have extreme dissatisfaction, you know, you'll have subtle degrees of of unhappiness and dissatisfaction, but you will have extreme suffering depending what's happening to you what's happening to people around you that you love. And it all comes down to you wanting things to be different than the way they are.

But you're wanting things to be different than the way they are, from the point of view of believing in this collection of independent entities. And that's not That's not the ultimate reality. That is the illusion. And that's a really difficult illusion to get me beyond. The buddha after he realized this said, No. Not worth trying to teach anyway. But i know what he's gonna. This is too subtle. This is too difficult. People are not going together. But unfortunately you changed this way. It is it's so deeply embedded ass.

Yeah she i see what when you talked about being compassionate and therefore we're wanting to do whatever you can to leave the suffering of someone. On some plain, mh. That can actually interfere with someone learning a valuable lesson. When when we moved to relieve someone else's suffering rather than allowing them to learn how to relieve their own suffer. Yes. This is something that we have talked about before. What? What it raises is necessity for practice for developing and practicing skill needs.

That's that that's the technical term. Skill means is knowing knowing when it's better off to let something play itself out. And it's very difficult for us to recognize that in the beginning. It takes a lot of wisdom and a lot of experience. We've talked about this before in terms of enabling. You know, So if we just... If we take a naive simplistic view of all here's my pre ups and, you know, I gotta practice compassion for other people, then, you know, that can can very easily justify enabling behaviors that are extremely harmful to people, which is not compassion, which is not compassionate.

So so that's why you know, I mean, it's it's not as simple as... Here's the rules follow them and everything everything's gonna be great. You have to think about them. And you have to come you know, your practice allows you to understand your yourself at deeper levels. And and and one of the greatest and most well known teachings of the buddha this suit as one that's called the four applications of mindfulness or sometimes call the four foundations of mindfulness. He repeats over and over again you do this practice.

You see this in yourself. And then you see this in others, and then you see this in yourself and in others he goes through all these different practices, and after he described each one, he said, you you know, this the same little refrain. What you have to... Your mind is the one that you can study most immediately and learn the most from. And as you learn, you can apply that to understanding other people. And then a wonderful thing happens. We start looking at other people and you're seeing your yourself in them.

And you can see it u aha i I know. I recognize that. I found that in myself. Now I know Why act that way. Now I know why he says as things he does. Now I know why. She treats me some guys. Do you have a whole new understanding. And so you're looking at that, but then there's a new benefit comes to that you can see things in other people. Once you have that insight, you start to seeing things and other people that you would never allow yourself to see in yourself. So then you start to understand yourself better as well.

And you need to have both of these to practice skill names. Because one hand... What the this side of your brain says, well, the best thing to do for this person would be this but it creates some difficulty for you. It may be... It it may be emotionally difficult for you to do all upon your may party you to do something that you'd rather not do. And so some other part of your mind rationalize it and says, well, you don't have to because there's is this and. You need to understand your own mind as a well as the mind of another person before you can truly successful in scope me.

Angie, you need to try practicing skill from day one from Walnut what. But as you... But your you will actually your skill will develop as you understand yourself better, and as you understand. Other sentient being better as your understanding grows your skill grow. So... Yeah, it's not it it's it's not simple because we are not simple. And life is not simple. So sometimes you can recognize that. Sometimes the person. Yeah. Needs to suffer, call it teflon. Right? But it's very easy to use tu as an excuse for not doing what we should do too.

So touch both ways. Word use it to punish or use to find yet. All kinds which is have gonna need again. Yeah. And and very often, we have to be careful because very often when we think we're helping somebody else, we're giving a great advice, it's just our own pride. It's our own ego. You know, who... I am here and you're down there and look how why I am and how much I can help you. And sometimes the advice you get is terrible it you takes somebody in the wrong direction. So you have to be very, very careful about that.

You cannot truly be skill in your interactions with others. Until you are completely honest with yourself and understand your mind. But you can work towards that. And that's important thing. To do and considering that we go around doing all these things in the world and ignorance, you know, that we can only improve upon that by bringing some wisdom and understanding into distinct things that already doing. Sometimes I finally the advice I give is exactly the advice I need. Yes. That is very good observation.

Yep. That's right. Yeah. Sometimes you notice that the advice somebody else gives you is exactly... Saying. Yeah. We're very of about behaviors of people, which are behind that I actually have the download. Not and I see somebody else she's not organized so I'm very. That's right. And what we dislike most and other people are the things that we dislike in ourselves. Yeah. The most critical of those thing. And it's because if we we go around judging ourselves or perceived false. It always makes this feel a little bit better to find somebody else with the same paul worse It's failing a little more and indeed.

Is said the heater? Or just... I think you feel sure think that's the sun. Open in the door. Maybe so we we can open this stone and that will help a little bit. I don't know if isn't anybody here know how to use it opener or I'll get up into see that right there. Just it. That... You know have to do it yeah. There's the... There's scale right over there. One lakes? No it extends. There's a little button. Right here okay. Good to should be able to pop it out here. Bring this. You know, we may... We may have to start the eva pool up.

Okay. Anything else? If we go in the door thing? Yeah. We can open the door or not. And Have a second one. Mh. No. Nobody supposed us to print. And boris couldn't come today. So I thought it would be a good good good day to make use of this question. I was wondering if you might see a few words about developing not attachment within a romantic relationship. Mh. Because that seems like the trick atmosphere to be that in. Yeah. That's it's. Right. Seriously Second trick is after developing non attachment to yourself.

Yeah. But it's a wonderful one to practice that in. Romantic relationships are very interesting and that they initially are actually extremely selfish and self centered. But yet, our mind cleverly totally disguised as that, you know, so that in a new romantic relationship, It's a good opportunity to understand what the term emptiness means. Your mind projects that other individual as being something that that in no sense are. Right? Mag magnifier gl make some pain incredibly wonderful. And the selfish attachment.

You you want to possess them and you want to be with them, you want to partake and savor and enjoy that wonderful mess of this divine that you're lucky enough to discover again so so forth. That's the the first stage the infatuation but you know, we were born to be together. I the best thing is ever happened to me in my life is to meet this other person and so forth. Behind all of that seeming worship of the other person is just this gigantic selfish. That's what you want. You want that and you want it for yourself.

And you wanna own it and you wanna enjoy the benefits of it and everything else. So, you know, but as time goes by, we begin to see through some of our illusions and we create others and in their places. But the interesting thing about romantic relationships is that the longer they're sustained, the more they come to be the more you really know another person, the more you've come to truly love them for who and and and what they are and in a non selfish in a non office way a more non self way. But it usually takes a long long time before before that is not vastly overshadowed by the selfish aspect of it.

You may have a a a very... What do you think is a severely non selfish love for your partner, but wait until they say they wanna leave and go with somebody else. Dan you find out how much possessive there is in there. Or how much you have invested your own view of self and Self esteem and there... You know, they are the they become the support for it. But people have been together for a very, very long time. There is there comes to be less and less of that selfish and and more and more of a genuine and concern and caring for the other person that is really what you're doing is that you're expanding the definition of self.

And so now my inner notion of i includes this other person, no longer as a possession, but now in more the same sense of I regard myself So the attachment, the basis of attachment really hasn't changed at all. You've made a positive shift from selfish attachment to the other person as a possession and as a source of gratification, to self selfish attachment to the person as an extension of in a part of yourself. So if you if you study the dha and as you learn about things and you realize that if you're in a relationship, you have a wonderful opportunity to explore these things.

And Your attachment to another person is the second toughest attachment to break. The toughest attachment to break is to your notion of yourself. And when you overcome that, you've become a stream metric. You've you've you've reached the first stage of enlightenment, something's changed in your brain. They that irreversible change is taking place in your brain that's going to affect your perceptions and your behaviors for the rest of your life. So that's the real biggie. But that's also that's such a tough nut to crack that anything else you can use to work towards that that's easier to work on.

Is an advantage. So if you have an partner partner and you have an attachment to them, that's actually going to be easier for you to work on then your attachment to your your own cell. Because it is at least that one, step remove. So you can see your attachment more clearly. And actually, the way that you work on it is is by doing that. Is by seeing it clearly by practicing mindful awareness by coming to recognize every time that attachment comes up, and you can say aha. There there it is. Here's my attachment.

You know, because that's what will make the difference. You don't you can't overcome attachment to anything by trying to force a change. you know, your mind has incorporated whatever it is your attached to into it's integrated into into a very complex internal visualization of you and your relationship because the world. So, you know, it's it's like it is so integral. You're not gonna come along and through an active will and through a simple view of the way things are rip this out. So what you do is you you keep exposing that to the light of mindful awareness.

Over and over and over again. And this is what does to work. When you are when that limited part in your mind, that is is fully conscious and mind aware. See something. That light penetrate to those deeper parts of your mind that are really constructing all of this stuff and which really receives the benefit of this conscious awareness. And so the more you observe it and and and and allow that understanding to grow, then the more that understanding penetrate to those deeper subconscious parts of your mind that have constructed your view of self and reality.

And keep in mind, your view of self reality is constantly being changed. They're constantly reconstruct it. So if you get this if you get this light of understanding to penetrate down to level where all of this constantly reworking is taking place that reworking will take place in such your way that it will diminish the attachment. The information that you have to get there is to recognize attachment for what it is. And to recognize the pain that is involved in it. Attachment is the minds response to the imp of everything.

And in imp isn't that thing just don't last in imp is that everything is constantly changing. There is nothing, but process flux change. There are no things that just don't last very long. There are no things period. All there is is process what and change. But your mind. It's much easier for your mind to create a world consisting of things. And Your mind perceives it as things that are permanent transient, and it's painful, but it it is painful. To have everything constantly changing like that.

So attachment is what your mind does in reaction to imp. Yes. Basically, what is attachment you say you're attached to something? It means that there's some hidden part of your mind that when it's triggered is gonna motivate all of the resources you have to hold onto that thing and to keep it from changing. If it feels like it's changing. You to speak about a relationship. Isn't that exactly what you have. What happens to you something happens, something's done or said that makes you feel the relationship is threatened in some way.

And every part of your being suddenly goes into this mode of not going to allow the change. Going to hold on to what I have and, a hold on to this precious stability. Well, That's a really good example of seeing the process. And here recognize that that's happening all the time all day long, you know, that happens when you try to send an email and the internet's down. You know, your mental reaction is and manifestation of attachment. I want it to be this way. I wanted to rely on it. You know, I Phone up and chew out the Internet service provider.

I'm gonna do let get a new computer. It's all of your sources go to this acting out of attachment mode. You want things to be in particular way. So it's happening to it all the time. A close relationship is a wonderful opportunity to study the dynamics of it recognize it, because it comes up and be unmistakable for. Are you also saying that rejecting attachment inadvertently it? It just creates a different kind of attachment. Right. You you're very attached to the idea of how i'm attached to are.

And and it'll be me right. Because you support that view, that that view of your own attachment by denying the impulses and inclination that you do have and expressing them. And denying and rep them, you know, it doesn't really change them and make them go away. It just makes them manifest in other forms that will catch you off guard. So we'd actually have less access to chain to to giving up the attachment if we reject the object. If you deny it, then you then one of the things you've denied yourself is the ability to see it mindful examine it.

And that's where the real ability to cope with. These these mental of ours comes from being able to see and recognizing and acknowledge and accept them for what they are. You know, any of any kind when you can look at it and accept... Okay. That's that's there. That's part of what makes me think act feel and behave way I do. And to see that it's on Wholesome. You need to see that. You can't do that when you're denying it. It just that you've deliberately put winder on or put a bag over your head or something so.

So How then do you enter into something like like, marriage of that level of commitment with that realization that both you and the other person are these constantly changing entities. Well, if you if you recognize that and then you enter into a relationship that has a potential to be a wonderful growth experience girl on learning experience. But I mean, that that is a reality. Whether you recognize it or not. And and that is even if you done into a marriage relationship. It's still reality And, you know, to be you know, everything is constantly changing.

So to grasp on to anything. You know, it's like it's like being on a fast moving train and trying to grasp at things outside the window window. It's gonna hurt Good analogy Soon the same you learning that. And the better it's going to be. Relationships are a really wonderful opportunity to learn. To be to be ce simplifies your life a lot. But it also deprive you this opportunity to work on all these same things in a a situation in format, but if you go about right, allows for... You know, as i say, if you see it, and you can see it in yourself better if you can see it in somebody else.

And you can learn to understand all other things by learning to understand one other being, particularly. The problem with marriage and relationship is that we go into them filled with ignorance ignorance programmed by desire and inversion. And we we will fulfill nature's and imperative at least those of us who are heterosexual and those who us who haven't made the decision not to have children. But we'll still even if we've made those decisions even if we are same sex relationship or even if we decided to never have children.

We'll still behave under the compulsions that nature provided us with that are intended to do only one thing, which is to to produce offspring and to see those offspring survive and succeed. And, you know, nature is not interested in your happiness and that Nature quite satisfied to trick you into thinking you're in an happy situation Mh. When it's totally the opposite so long as you reproduce and and you do what you need to for your offspring to survive. And that's the program we have. And even even if you say well, I'm never gonna have children, you just still have the programming.

It's still gonna be there. So the most wonderful kind relationship to be in is where both partners are on spiritual crowd. And where the basis of the relationship is if happen to support each other as fully as possible and your own spiritual growth and enlightenment. And anytime either one of you starts to put something else ahead of that, and you remind yourself this this is this is what we entered into this contract for to to mutually help and support each other. And to deal with all the stuff that we both brought into and we never pretended it wasn't there, and we know it's there.

Then then as you discover that you are a constantly changing process, and your partner is a constantly changing process. Then these two constantly changing processes have basis to deal with the problems of arise out of your attachment to each other But really your attachments to each other are attachments to the projections that you have about each other. And the things that you create in your mind as the significance of each to the other. Very much a part of it is that we invest a lot of our idea of who we are.

As a static thing and become very attached to it in this early person's projection. You know, let me, I think I am to you, and then you projected that and it. And and if you don't project it back, I'm gonna get real upset. Sounds like follow you do it. I yeah Well. A shared delusion. That's her shared delusion. That did it. But. When two people suffering from delusion, which is what all of the enlightened beings of the world are are doing. So when any two onion enlightened beings enter into a partnership, it is definitely Oh, yeah.

Do But if they know that they're doing that and they know where they wanna go then doesn't have to stay there way. That necessarily spiritual well? Children. Children, a hindrance, Anything in life can be made into a source of spiritual growth and anything in life can be turned into a hindrance. It's what we do with it, really is is a serious illness to spiritual growth depends entirely on what you do by. Children take a huge amount of time and energy. And children will definitely when in our a relationship, children gonna really bring out the the illusions that we hold about each other.

So We can let that overwhelm. We can let that throw us off balance and then those children are going we'll look at. So they children her our hindrance. Right. But we could just as easily recognize what's happening. And work with it and which case the the children could be They they might. The presence of children and the stress that they introduced into a relationship might bring you to a point of growth and the relationship that without children would have taken ten twenty more years. So There there are these two approaches to absolutely everything.

You can abandon them? And that does work. You can abandon everything and that works to a degree. But you can also embrace whatever life presents you and make that part of your dha. Make that part of your practice. There are with regard to the abandonment and withdrawal. There are stories recounted in the Buddhist Citrus, illustrating that that doesn't always work. There stories of that have gone off by themselves practice for years convinced they're totally enlightened time to go back and to the song and, you know, I guess tell everybody how like Diane You know, and his one story where the particular bp involved.

Gets no further than the first major road crossing road crossings in India where where all the merchants and everybody would set up And, you know, thought be the butcher stall and the broom maker stall and then, you know, all of these different people there. Making things and selling things. They got to the first one and his illusions about being like, totally blunt. So you can buy by withdrawing and abandoning, you can lose yourself in terms of how much spiritual growth that you have exceeded and and taking And and you also in the same way you can recognize that life's ordinary experiences are all opportunities.

They they they put the things in our face that we need to learn to understand. To deal with. I want side of yesterday, George j was here visiting and we talked about many things, but i ask his opinion being being a a Ge, the highest level of ge in to that system and being the vice habit of tan monastery and everything anything like that. What do you think? About late practitioners and monastic is is what what better. And he said that monastic, it's it's definitely easier for monastic. But he thought that late practitioners actually had an advantage that they they have more more opportunities.

I I was really significant coming from somebody who had been a part of the monastic system since he was a very young child. Kind of I'm is there any. I also buddhist is they can say? Then it's it is... Many ways that you're studying for judith and it's very similar with like, minimum pad and between the they going looking to extremes a lot of things, but when come to family and stuff, the duties just about top to beginning to do a lot to be blah before you have family and then kids and stuff like this, while the what is kind of ideal thing is monk.

And where catching that Was interesting thing happened. If you look at sutra, the the buddha had many lead disciples who became enlightened doesn't matter. In fact Well, the first the first five were Ce had he'd done the practices with for many years. But the sixth person the become enlightened was the son of a merchant as a late person. And you go through there, there's there's many lay people who become enlightened in the sutra. And is one particular the sutra and I don't know when during his forty five year career, this one was spoken But in that switcher, he en twenty one our hearts.

Who were late people. And one his foremost disciples was the lay Chi Pos. And he also identifies Chi amongst all of these four disciples as one of the three who is most competent Donna teachers. So at the time of the buddha, even though he promoted the going force and the the cell life of the, he was also leading and promoting a very large late following at the same time. And acknowledging that lee people can become fully enlightened as well as Monastic. And interesting thing happened though within a few centuries in most Buddhist, countries came to be the belief that all the monastic could become like And then in some countries, there is a belief that if you become a non return or or in hour hot.

That you have to take robes and become of monastic within twenty four hours or you'll die. And it's it's it's...

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