The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC 18 March 2010 part 1

Automated transcription

Yes. I think you bring on my mind last week of so that you talk. I talked several people need to proper. I'm update even all the information I wish could keep this talk again. But I I do want to ask something and you share a little bit of your personal experience with might be interpreted previous life expectations. And you said you came to the commission that it was not. It was part of other lives and the beads. So how do you separate the know I and me? From what was brand do and the other... Well, that's actually a very good question because, you know, really, I I said things both ways last week.

And that really is the way it is gonna, are you that? Whatever whatever other person's life experience in memories, I might be able to ask sense. That's still another person. It's not this person. But on the other hand and the most profound sense, we are all the same. And so, you know, it is... What I really need to say by that, is when we're thinking of ourselves as the limit itself but we normally experience. You know. Well i this body, I am this behind. I these spies. I am these desires and preferences and hopes and wishes and attachments, and and and, you know, all the good and all have But all the stuff that's all wrapped around this five aggregates here that that itself.

And I am not that so. You know? That self exists. But it is is a transient condition. You know, ham and the way that my mind tends to look at it as an illusion is using illusion. So to whatever degree, like having a past life experience or knowing the mind of another person that's hawaii at the same time and sitting in the same room with me, or even if we could imagine, you know, having an experience of somebody who hasn't jab being able to tap into the into the mainstream of of a life experience that that hasn't even happened yet.

Each of those is real in the sense that it is the five aggregates that exist at that time that are transient condition and constantly change it. So each of those exist in the same way that my aggregates exist right now. And I'm not... The this... This that I'm experiencing now isn't it a true sense. It's a transit phenomenon. And if I have memories of some other similar found that's not me anymore than this... That's not a true self important. This is a true song. And most definitely, this five aggregates with its memories and experiences and and pre predisposition.

Is not the same as as as any... As any I might experience and then you have to go. So the profound truth is that the self that we my field that we are, the separate permanent single experience or doe. Is is just an illusion that's being put on a a process that's taking place. And so we'll be in the state for us to... If we have access to any memories or experience of anyone else similarly to mistake and just as it's a mistake to think. But this is because I'm kind of a permanent by itself. We've been even large in the state to think that, not only is this pertinent in biting itself it's so pertinent that of abiding that it had these other... you know, it was the same being that have these other experiences.

So that's been a sense though it's not to the degree that, you know, I might examine these experiences and say, that... And in an valid way say that that was the Then in exactly the same task, I have to say that that is a that is that we're all you know, that in in any true sense. The... It it is not a separate cell. But it is the manifestation of the experience self imposed on the these unfolding and pertinent. Aggregates that is universal. Because if I know that my consciousness, if you some of you pick up my consciousness and put it in your head their bills head or somebody else's.

I I never known the difference. It's my. So is it be a different part in a different booth but it was but that the actor couldn't, you know, the actor would always be the same. What, are you talking about an energy then? What's that? Are you talking about Gamma two? Well, I that is a way you you think of it. Yes. Very very much. So. But we do have to be a little bit careful because we use the word energy. Energy is is defined. By physics and science and things like that. And if I said, yes. That's energy, and then you tried to apply the very specific and clearly defined meaning that we have with the return energy, that it's not going to make sense.

But at the same at the same time, it's almost a perfect metaphor because you know, what science tells us as well. Matter and energy appear to be two different things, but they're all the same thing. And matter is just a form of energy. And and at its most fundamental level, energy same no over in a matter what form takes. It just to change one form and how they turn out. And it does. It's all changing form. Mh. But it's it's always energy. So it's it's very energy like, energies are good metaphor metaphors for it.

And it may actually be that if we have a better definition of energy, it might... We might be able to say it it is energy. But I just wanna caution you that when we use the term energy that there is a very well established meaning that is not going to show. Think like that. Yes. I can understand in concept of non self when you talk about it. In relationship to this slack. Right? Yeah. I think I have difficulty trying to understand it in relationship to past lives. Because of this whole understanding of k.

Mh. And that there is obviously some sense of some memory of a past existence. So it seems like it's of a memory of of experiences i grant, but of a particular person not of several different people? Let me see. You made specific reference to too. Which is they to that and concept that a a high and intentionally, be reborn to fulfill the same role in their mono and their society. And and you you say that that. The memories are those are one specific person not several people. I'm it's a very interesting thing.

You you you won't find... You you won't find it very easy. To locate anybody who speaks very openly and clearly got this. And, you know, the one person that I have just so much incredible admiration for is the dollar Lam and. One of the things is that he so skill walks the razor edge between they dogma the doctrines and the dogma, and and all the stuff of the tradition that he feels responsible for maintaining. And so he's very careful not to do or anything to undermine those no matter how unrealistic how dogma medic found anything else that they are.

On the other side, he tries to be as open and honest and January as possible. Now he has spoken several times with interviewers about this particular issue. And now I don't know that I read. Every interview that he's given, but I probably very narrowly. I I have missed some in somewhere. And he speaks about the previous all Us. And his language is always very carefully chosen. He speaks of having a resonance with the the dal lam that preceded him and with the fifth dollar lam and and say saying he has absolutely no connection with those in the in between.

Right. And if he... You know, he talks about these different incarnation. These different dotted loans just put there these different homes. And there is never any hit in the way he speaks. That he regards them as him himself. He speaks in terms of as I said, resonating with his president immediate predecessor. But he also speaks very critically of some of the decisions and attitudes, things like that of that that exactly. And it's not in the terms of... Oh well I did this, but it was okay was in mistake.

But rather as anyone would about another person who they understood their purchases and motivations, but they disagree but with other aspects of what they did and said. And so, you know, he he doesn't... He doesn't deny very... There's a really common perception. Amongst that, which is that it is of the literal rein, but this is exactly the same person. Put on new body and so forth. And he's careful not to say anything that, you know, is going to undermine that common belief, but he never ever says anything that that corresponds to it as well.

So And we what we can talked about a little later this evening maybe is, you know, what is what is it that continues? And what did the do say about what is that they continues? Right. The idea of a toolkit is that a spiritually highly evolved person. Can. Formulate the intention of having their their current formations, manifest and one particular other person. K So it's like... And and it's important to we maybe we go back right now, Say what when the buddha was asked. You know, reverse reverse or.

What what is this... That's reborn? And he said, it is the current imprint they accumulated in your life. No. You were not reborn. The those current. And the this is recognized in in the in the idea of the tool saying that a highly he follow spiritually a evolved person. Rather than having, you know, some of his tendencies show up and and one person, but others not show up in in that person try some other so forth. That think could kind of package these current previous predisposition so that another being will come into existence.

Who will be pre predisposed to to develop in a very positive way. And then, of course, within that system, they tried to locate who this person is. Right? When they're as young as possible and then every of their lives after that. They are given the most sophisticated, training by the very best teachers that of our life. Now Real, let's just look at this sort of objectively. K? If we took a... If we were to select push child and random and provide them with the best possible spiritual training, education, all the doctrines and philosophies and so forth.

And and begin that at the age of two or three or four. We would expect to produce a pretty fine product. But at the same time, we would recognize that individuals come into this world with certain predisposition. And so they might not always turn out as well as we'd hoped and they might surprise us. And this was the case if if we're looking specifically at the lineage of dollar Long, Took a number of re in that. Cool. Yes. There was... I believe it was the sixth who they just never never took to this monastic really religious stuff snuck out of the whole time to party and and have sex.

Different things like that. You know? So it didn't always take. Right? That which we would expect if we were choosing Random. But for step buttons always go to great lengths to try to choose to try to identify that child Who will come into this world with the right combination of current predisposition. And so they developed oracle and tests and things like that. But it still didn't Always work. I'm not supposed that you all know Krishna and is. And the society. The theological society decided to see if they could pull off it talk to about.

So they chose Krishna he has child, and he was cultivated. It's entire life up to be the sought after Avatar. It was going to be the religious leader of the age and they get exact what as do the that most Upstairs he received the was intensive finest, careful spiritual education that they could give now. And now, when he grew up, and he was old enough too. He said, thanks but no thanks son how does she go find another avatar. And he spent the rest of his life his teaching was very much anti tied guru root and anti but kind of the approach.

So you see when we have organized systems to try to make things happen and pretty way. And they and then everything that they do fits sent a certain doctrines and darkness. We heads that on the one hand. Then on the other hand, we are searching for a deeper kind of truth. We never that in that... This is that this is all empty in the sense that our minds are intellect intentions, or fluctuations so and everything. Are all absolutely guarantee fall vastly short of describing reality. Okay. So I...

The truth that we're seeking is bound to be her relative truth rather than an ultimate truth. But when we are are seeking after, we have to do what the buddha is at. Look inside. See what is driving you. See what is making your life go. See what is real and what is illusion. And when he did down, he said, there is no cell. And if you understand what he needs by that, he didn't mean that this body of mind doesn't exist, and that there isn't a continuity from in inception to grave, because it's obviously true that that is.

But he said, the kind the self that you think you are it's an illusion, and it doesn't exist. And and it never has existed in it ever will exist. Let alone having existed in previous lifetime lifetimes and existing in future. And when do you understand that? And you say... So what is really meant by rebirth, don't point every warning when you house. Your brand new person who's inherited all this conditioning of somebody else that went to dead last night. Plus all lines that they left behind for you to solve.

Including if they were too tired too lazy to set up the automatic coffee. A stumble around and a fog feel you get the company paper. You know, that's fault. That's that's the current way that you inherited But... Right. And and and also when the boo spoke have it, you know, we be born moment by. And so this is a assessment which too to see and understand. We we've talked a lot. We we'll... You know, you said that you wish we could have that pop against another one. It's either the recording is up on the driver's side.

So number two, we can have it all over again and see where it goes And Yeah i'd been really I'm very interested in looking for to hearing the things that that have come here in mind as all so you have or things that I would both said and so forth. K. So let's look... Let's look into this. Yes. It on the website yet. It is on the website. You don't think it got until yesterday but thinking. I think it's up today. Yes. How can you explain those children? Like, like, in the the mistaken child where the months go and look for the rein information of their old teacher.

How you playing the children being able to choose the same objects that their masters or that, their former selves would have chosen. Like haven't explained that kind of Well, mh there are there are variety of ways that we can explain how that comes about. Know. And actually, I've never checked to see, but I'd love to see what the amazing brand you guys said about say not. You know, do the amazing is. Know he is probably the best magician in the world. And first magicians do all kinds of things other than just slide them.

And he has for years, set yourself the task of explaining the mysterious things that people see do and happening in the claims that they made. know. And he's offered a huge prize. I know half a million dollars for anybody ever perform something that is supernatural and sense it can't be explain in temperature of things. So they're probably... I I have no idea what they amazing randy would say about how to explain and and what she's referring to for those who who may not know that one of the tests if they do when they think there's a child that might be the incarnation of one of these alignments or tool.

Is they will take several sets of groceries or are mall so very well. One of which belong to the the Llama so and lay them out together and i'll do the same thing with the bill and j in with the prayer real things like that. So that they have several to choose from. And then they'll have say this child. Which one do you like? And what we always here is that the child, you know, go suit them. Pick up one and gas and invalid and it gets the right one says. I like this one it puts it off. You know, it picks up the bill.

And i don't like that. Man I don't like down goes back this one. Finally makes up their mind, and they choose the right one. And so the question is, how we explain that? The thing I know is that D buddha said it's not explained by saying it's the same person. About. Makes. And there's many, you know, Well, I I won't suggest anything in particular. Just say that there are variety ways that quite unintentionally. Those visiting llama could be directing the behaviors. Right. And, you know, that there's a combination of motivations of child would have.

Here the whole family is heavily and all of these changes that have arrived out by right. This is regarding the tendency you want to please. Not only that the the child has his own desires. And there's a lot of things that can be communicated, you know, So who knows what the explanation is. All I know is that the buddha said, it's not the same person. But yeah. Yes. We'll see on So the child chooses various items. And then it seems like the explanation for why their child chose these things was that is the rein of a previous person?

I don't see how that's an explanation. It what explained. It it's If it's not... It doesn't explain give... It's a statement that somebody would like to follow from them, but Mh. Get... I understand it is explanation that Yeah. It makes clear something that How that works. Okay. Well, let's talk about this after we sat for while. And what we can also talk about is there is a researcher Whose name is ian Stephens and if any of you ever heard of now? Good. As psychiatrist who did a very daring thing and made a whole career of investigating.

Accounts of rein. So both on about this more later evening. Okay? So we'll start with your question yeah.

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