The Mind Illuminated archive

Stronghold 7 March 2010



Automated transcription

Should we talk about? I'm gonna interested in karma. You're interested in Karma. Yes. Alright. Tell me But if Probably just want into the Karma, maybe you could just tell me a little more about what you... What you have heard or or what your interest is... My like you always hear about Karma, but I've never really paid much attention to until I started coming. And then I'm a did... I have this pre conceived notion that with Cara was due to my actions and my actions only. Throughout this lifetime.

And now I'm reading that it's more than that. You know, it it's kind of an energy blowing and out my understanding now, it's it's it's a composite of past times and other energies. And and I get very confused with that. Mh. It can be very confusing. Yes. There many things said. Under this label of Karma, said for different reasons to sort different purposes. And so you stand some side by side and you, yeah. it can be very confusing. Pharma is a very ancient concept. Which has been a part of the the Indian v religious tradition.

Probably for more than five thousand years. And it originated in that tradition in a particular form. The Buddha took over the term and used it. In a different sense. But it continues to be used including by many schools of buddhism. Still in basically the V form. And So there's really two issues where you look at any teaching of Car. One issue is what is the purpose teaching is intended to serve? In terms of influencing the way people behave to basically create some kind of a basis for moral and ethical behavior and that some of the greater excesses that, you know, are prone too.

It's also used has a answer for some of the difficult questions like why things the where they are. You know, why does this happen to me? Why is there so much injustice in the world? So so there are a lot of different purposes that it's intended to sort. I included in there, sometimes it's just a component to fit together a larger religious system of beliefs of that you know, follow pieces fit together right nicely. And Karma, sometimes the glue that holds the different pieces together. The other question about Karma, or the other aspect of Karma is what...

In terms of the way things really are in the way things really work, where it is kind of say down. So these two is two different. Aspects of Karma. So you can see that it depends on where you're coming from. If you're looking for a system of belief to work with him, basically set of religious doctrines, then carmel means one kind of thing. If you are... Well, if you're a person saying, well, I just want to know, I'm a seeker after the truth I I wanted to know how things really are. That karma means something really different to you.

Most of the buddha teachings are about... I'm talking about original buddhist teachings, not gone are regenerate later. Are about they're very practical. They're very pragmatic, and they are about how things were, especially how things work in terms of why we have the kind of experiences we do how we can become liberated from the suffering that is so obviously a part of human and existence. How we can... You know, it is as a search for truth. It's awakening to truth Dion beyond. And so he took the concept of Karma and modified it.

They would what it originally referred to in a belief system that believed in an infinite series of rein. The only escape from which was to discover your true self and achieve a union of the t self with brahma. The creator and all of this reality is training with drama. So that's that's the data or of v view. And probably about five thousand years ago, Carmen started out. Very much a part of of a strictly a very rigid structured society with the cast system. And everyone had their role to play according to their cash.

According you their profession. It seems what I've read that, you know, if your father was the butcher you were gonna be a butcher. You weren't likely to found a a house builder or something like that. And, of course everyone had their women had their role in society. Everybody had their role to play. And so Karma means action. And so Karma referred to how well you fulfill society's expectation of your role. And then that in turn would determine what kind of rebirth you have? Because you could be reborn into a higher lower cast or you could be reborn into worse better circumstance.

And so for thousands of years, Karma was this mystical property of the universe that depending on how well you lived your life according to the rules of your society, that would determine what kind of rebirth that he would have. Next slide? But. That gradually evolved until not too long before the time has the do that. Yep. It take... It took on more of what you commonly here today that it wasn't just how you follow the rules and perform the rituals. But there were there were inclined say. Well, maybe it it also includes the moral qualities of our actions.

And that it's not just the way that you were reborn. But maybe the other things that happened to you in your life they're also too. And so it began to be this this idea that caught on more and or that that everything you did, that have an influence on what happened to you and future lives. And some of that's come down to us. So, you know, they had the account for this. So they invented... you know... I mean, who's keeping track, who's keeping score. Right? And so is this a apache record where everything is recorded.

And sorry it was sort of like, you know, everything you do is recorded in the Aka account record and then everything that happens to you is needed out according to you know, this the running score you have in your gosh record. So that was the belief that preceded the buddha. And it was it was not overcome by the buddhist teaching and it has been incorporated into any forms of buddhism. But a lot of times in buddhism and view will find the basic created hindu version of Karma that there is some mysterious property of the universe that keeps tabs on everything you do and meets out the results and everything of that...

So the buddha took this, half i'm much more awake and enlightened point of view. Having recognized that the reality of what you are and what I am is not some un changing eternal soul that puts on a different suit with each rebirth and gets you know, assaulted by some combination of good and evil from the past. But for self that we are, is a composite of many different things, not a single thing, All of which are the result of causes and conditions. Everything is constantly determined. And that everything we do or even say every thought we have conditions that complex that is what we really are, that complex of things.

So he said... So he took the doctrine of car And he said, when I say Karma, I mean intention, The intention behind as we saw every word and every action. And that karma, that intention conditions who we are, So who we are five minutes from now or tomorrow or next year or at any other point in the future? Is going to be influenced by the intentions that arise in this moment in the next moment. And then next next, we are continuously conditioning our ourselves. And so We are the results of our kind.

He said, do you have to own your time? Because what you are is the right result of your karma during your whole life you have been. Creating your karma, creating who you are. And we look at the differences between us. And and the same circumstances. One person is happy, and another person is miserable. Mh. That's their karma. They made themselves that right. One person is Jealous and angry and other is loving generous. All these things about the way we are. Our condition results of the activities of our mine.

And the importance of that as he taught was not so much to account for Y me. Although it does do that. But to show you, that it is entirely up to you. What kind of a person you are in the future. What you are right now, You can't change. But that is the raw material you have to work with. And this is how we can become enlightened. By by bringing about our own evolution towards pain an the enlightened by changing our karma. Until eventually as a fully enlightened being, we we actually become beyond the reach of that karma.

So so that's what that was the original blue basic teaching. Karma there that whatever you experience. And you'll see on the one hand, you have the Hindu data queue. Everything that happens to you is the result of your karma. And then what the buddha taught was every every experience you have is a result of your Karma. And you see the two are different. Because, you know, somebody asked The buddha said, if sexy. There are those who teach that a such such happens to me that that is a result of my Karma.

If I become ill as a result of my permit. And the buddha said, very frankly, he said, no. That's a foolish teaching. There are many things that can cause you to become sick. There are many things that can cause different things to happen to you. But the experience you have, when they happened, that is your karma. But that is the result of your time. You know? That that's changed. You'll go to you'll go to Buddhist teachings and be flat they told that everything you experienced as a result of what you did in previous lives.

And that is the Hindu v view. That has been carried over into buddhism. It's not what said I said time. The in like, buddha taught but it has it has... But the two he took the two side by side and said this is This is what has been taught. And this is what's really going on. And it drew parallels and drew the parallels so well that people came along later and discarded that because it was hard to understand and hard to accept hard to work with, really. It's easier just to say, well, you know, I'm just gonna, you know, go around doing my best to do good so I'll read the fruits of my car.

Know. Which is not a bad thing. It's a really good thing. I mean, socialize it's tremendous thing, In most buddhist countries, people are really ind with the idea that they should do things to accumulate merit it. Person i told that lay people can rarely become enlightened you really have to be become monastic. But this thing you can do is support the mono and the months and things like that. They create the likelihood of being reborn. Under just circumstances so that you can look on a up, and then you can become the light where you could become net become.

Well, actually, in most buddhist countries, if you're woman, so you can be fortunate enough to re reborn a man so in the coming market. But So what's the definition according to the buddha of Carmen? Because I learned that it was the movement of the mine. So but you're saying something different. No. It is the movement of the mine. But that part from what you're saying. That part is that part is true. It's it's when You see the Buddha said that there were five different kinds of cons out. He said this and people said, does everything...

I'm taught that everything happens to me the all result of Karma. And the buddha has said, there's there's a physical causality this biological causality, there's a mental causality and then there's Karma. And the fifth kind of causality is a causality that comes through the wisdom of the Dha. So a dha wisdom. You know. So all when I get sick. What's that? You're saying that my mind doesn't move when I get sick. No. I'm saying that your mind does move when you get a sick. You if you become sick, it can be the result of your karma in the sense that you may have made various decisions are taken certain actions that led to you coming sick.

But it's not just due those. It's also due to microorganisms or caused sickness. Yep. What causes microorganisms. Well, you don't cause micro microorganisms. What causes micro? Well, the buddha is answer to that is I'm not interested in addressing that question. He said, there are there are microorganisms that should be enough for you. Now But first, and from the teaching of emptiness, my are not what we think they are. You know, we we think that there there's a separate entity called my body, and there's some other entity called the micro microorganisms.

I mean, this is how we can save it. But this is just a limitation of our minds. It's not... It is it is empty we say it's empty. We... It's empty of spell something. It's empty of being the way we perceive it. Because the way we perceive it is generated in our minds. The fact is, on the one hand, you experience being sick. Now you experience being sick because the body you perceive has been affected by what you perceive to be micro microorganisms. And that is the relative reality of it. And the continuity of actions that you are, you could potentially trace back and find to what degree you are responsible for that.

But there is a degree to which it is... Its causality is in the realm of the physical, the biological and the mental. Okay? Certain physical events took place that were not necessarily intentional. I mean, some intentional to brought you into this circumstance but some also we're not intentional. They're physical events. This biological of this. I mean, the fact that that in terms of also reality, there are microorganisms, they agreed in certain time environments. They have certain kind of effects.

That's biological causality. Mental causality. Because of the nature of your mind and your body, you experience Thursday when you experience Thursday might go and drink from a stream and you might not. You might not know that those my are are are in there. So so physical and biological and mental causality can bring you to the situation where you you are ill, you're experiencing illness. Karma may have paid a role of plate of role in that. Karma may have, you know, through desire or a version you may have made decisions that led you to be in that place at that time.

When you became thirsty and this water was available, there may or may not have been other options. But if there were other options, you may through desire version or somebody other have chosen to take a chance on drinking this water rather than rest restraining yourself and waiting until safer sources. Well, I mean, this is just still hypothetical. But what I need is it. But the fourth level of causality, Karma could have influence could have played an influence with the other three in terms of the arising of situation, but now that you are sick, the experience of being sick is one hundred percent Karma.

It's hundred percent the result of how as a conditioned composite being, how you are going to experience this? Remember what we mean by being empty. So oh, no. I'm terribly sick. This is horrible or or just Well, I have this illness I hope I live through it. What of the things I should do to prepare in case I don't. I mean, all of the different attitudes, all of the different degrees and shades of suffering and misery regret you know, or the acceptance and wish to benefit fit others in some way warning them not to drink the water, you know, case i'll die.

Let's see who should I get my thing too. Okay all the different times of things it can make up the experience with being ill. That's your karma. What you experience, it is empty of being in any pre way. Your mind will project the nature of the entire situation that you find yourself there. Well, if we don't have a cell. So And and we're responsible for our actions good or bad while we're in this body. How to I'm confused as steve. What is it going at some big pool and kind of filters town to you and your next life?

I mean, that's what I'm confused about. How does how does that work? We don't have a solved. You don't have a cell. There's nothing to attach. Right. That car to. Mh. That's right. So I could pick up your carbon my next slide hopefully. Depending... How does that really be? I that's the hard question for today Is a hard question. But yes. But let me use a pavilion and easy to understand example. Okay? Because the whole mistaken view is the one that grasped to the assumption that you were a being that existed in the past and that you will exist in a different home.

For in the future. So let's take something that is a beautiful parallel and easy to understand. Your your our physical body, your health, and any of your personality cast facts that you came into this world with. I can be traced to the genes carried by your mother, your father your four parents and you're sixteen great grandparents and so on so forth. Right? Eight great natural anyway, Right? Right right. It came from. You are the composite the five aggregates that you are. Before you started, further creating and modifying yourself through through the intentions that arose there, are the result with your genetic inheritance.

Mh mh. You probably never ever had the thought that you are your mother, or you are your father or you're that mask? And or have you thought that you are your children? They are very definitely different beings from you. Right? But at the same time. You can see that you you inherited from your mother and father. That which shaped and formed what you are. Mh. And likewise, so with your children and grandchildren. And so this is... We just think of Karma as a completely parallel non material form of inheritance.

You are not the being who's Karma. You inherit it. And likewise, when you pass away the results of your current line. And this is what the buddha is at. You know, say some people said, well, you know, Sir, please tell me if there is no self, then who is it that is reborn? Yeah alright. I I think probably use the word that corresponds to re and car. Who is it that takes on a new body? And he said, there is no one who is reborn. What is reborn are the fruits of your Karma? See. And so it casts it in exactly parallel terms that...

The karma that you... The the un une karma that you have created. Will have an effect on future beings. Right? You know? Beans, Plural. Days for cathy. Right. And... Right. And, you know, you know well, there there are some organisms in the world that are... They come from only one parent, and they're completely identical. Mh. But most biological beings come from two parents. And so this is also a good parallel. When we think in terms of time, then we think of some sort of sequence like so. But...

And we can while still in time, say, well, okay. Maybe I've here Karma from several different things. Well, actually even inherited a genes from many different things. Right? And you could... Yeah and in time, you could have I I mean, you you could have inherited the karma directly of two or three or some number of things. But then they also represent the current results of others that live before then and everything else. So, you know, If you find yourself thinking of a single linear sequence, you're following back into the trap but they must be kind of self or soul that this can attached to.

So so as we have a gene pool all in this... There's a car pool. Mh. I mean, that's basically what you're saying. That's why we're... It that's what is hey more reasonable conceptual commercialization. Remember these are all conceptual hospitalizations in and the mind can't really... Anything that the mind can conceptualize is is wrong ultimate to fifty. It's not the way to be. But all of the different views of the different conceptual customizations that we could come up with. This is a a far more reasonable way.

It's far more consistent with a cliff experience and with what we know and so on and so forth. And what we do know and and really the reason for this and what's in this kind comes back to this other thing that is in terms of... Conceptually, we can't decide the way things, we can't describe the way things ultimately are. We cannot conceptualize and describe both of that reality. So therefore any anything that we can sexual and describe. Is flawed that's inaccurate. All views are ultimately empty.

Right? But all views are not equal. And the one criteria by which the Buddha encouraged us to evaluate the different views that we could adopt is which views best serve the pathway weight and freedom from suffering and so far and from his very first teaching. He made it clear that regarding that the idea that we have of ourselves as being separate permanent entities, is at the root of all our problems. Therefore any view at all to the degree that it reinforces that concept that I exist as a separate enduring entity he is going to stand in the way of liberation awakening realization.

You know So in terms of you know, in terms of how what karma really is, how far really works? You have to keep in mind the every description suffers the limitation that it is a view. Right? But you want to you want to follow the Buddha recommendation to adopt the view. If well, let's clarify this. If your goal is to become a awakened weekend, then adopt the view, that provides the few soft schools in terms of reinforcing the belief and separate self existent. So. Right? Of course, if your interest is keeping the populace of the city in which your monastery is located, from rubbing and stealing and killing each other and raging water on the next city and things like that.

You might present a different version of Karma. For a different purpose. Mh. Right? Sure. So you're saying that the line doesn't continue on the continuous stream. Say what? You're saying that the line stops. So doesn't continue and it continue the stream. All depends on what you mean by the mind. The mind that you are experiencing right now doesn't? No. The mine to hear... When does it stop? The mine is a only by moment. It's it's many different parts. Parts begin, parts and have different times.

Some leave permanently somewhere right talking about the collective, you know, all all the things that are made out of mental. Mentality. Mentality doesn't yeah. Okay. This is We naturally can too assume I do ro that there is that which is material not which is method. And This is the ordinary view. Alright? And the the seekers after truth amongst us. The philosophers the levers of wisdom, those who puzzle over these things and dedicate their lives to it. There's a large group of them that have gone that well.

There is a problem with this. How the mind... How how can if mind is so different from matter and never so different from mine. How can they ever interact? You know? And so one says well, Perhaps, there's only matter. Matter seems so real. We can study. We can break it down. Perhaps mind is just something that matter does. That mind is the result of matter organized and brain. And so they reduce reality to matter only. So they are modest, One is need one rather than dual, they've abandoned the dual of mind and matter for the mon of matter and said, mind is a manifestation of matter.

The other group of them, the ideal was barclay human and the west and all the other ideal, even going back to Plato. And, of course, the mined only schools and it spin offs sent the my said just the opposite observation said well. No. No. No. Don't even know that there really is any matter out there. I'll ever know this mind. And therefore, That's all there is. That is just something the mine makes up. Every... So this is the other. It's mental mon called ideal. There's the technical name for. Ideal is mental mon denies the inherent reality is matter.

Now there is there is yet another way. Other than the dual, which is fraught difficulties, and the two which have to resolve the difficulties by reducing everything to one or the other and subs assuming the other as an appearance of the one. Is what can be held non duality which is saying that their the stuff of reality is neither mine. Nor matter. But can appear can appear and that's can appear to consciousness as you do want. So now if you you wouldn't have asked the question. So what about that or does better continue?

We all assume that it does at least to some unknown end of the universe. Just assume it didn't you know Squad. Yeah. That well, what we're taught is that matter and energy, you know, with they the laws of physics matter and energy can be needed to created or destroyed. And so Maybe the universe is going to disappear in a gigantic black hole and, you know, it'll be a final hiccup and nothing left. But, you know, the idea of of them from the material point of view, is it it doesn't disappear. It's always there has different forms when you look at it at different points in time.

But know, it's always the same stuff as always there for the beginning to the end of the universe, know, it's this matter energy stuff. Well, The same thing, you know, applies to if if you recognize it, the the non dual approach, you can say exactly the same thing. Why you talk about anything ending? It's always there. Not only that time, time to something that doesn't really make sense. We we seem constrained to experience things that way. And so if we and and this is one thing that the the Buddhist teachings and actually the video teaching figured out early on is that is that talking of beginnings and days it leads to incomprehensible paradoxes.

So that's just that's just forget that part from beginning less time to endless time. So there is no need for mind in therefore or for ultimate reality. Ultimate my reality doesn't never have to happen yet. Your mind. I mean, you think about your mind exam here my And what is your about your mind? I mean, it's constantly its pieces are constantly coming in doing. So you seem like you can him yourself because I'm hearing on one hand that the personally the infant who has a bad experience is is not actually because of their own karma.

And so that they're got... You know, and you say when you die, your mind, you know, you end. And that there's not the person... There's not the person you who's doing stuff today has intention today or Carmen a day, isn't the person in the next slide that's collecting it? That's right. That's absolutely right. So it's seems is you're describing a very unfair system in the sense that I can't ever become enlightened because I've got all this karma from somebody else. You know, whatever from the collective pool of Karma.

So it's... And so I'm not... You're saying... That's what not ending. On the other hand you're saying it is? No. You're right. You can never become enlightened. Being enlightened is giving up you. I'm not having Alright. But the the body in mind that you are. Okay. Five aggregates gets however you wanna think of the body in mind that you are. Being a composite made up of many parts. Everyone of which and all of them are the result of causes and conditions. Are only seen as separate from the whole life and that arises from within itself.

Your mind imp a separation between you, and the whole. That separation can never become enlightened because enlightenment is the of that separation. You, the you that you imagine yourself, didn't exist yesterday and won't exist tomorrow. And this is what the Buddha has said. He he described twelve links of dependent origin origin, which when when they're in the form of twelve, he described them in many different versions, but when they're in the form as well. The last two. Number eleven is is birth and number twelve is aging in deck.

And then he said that, you know... And so it sounds like he's describing. The the va life of an individual that becomes reborn. Comes back into existence with the first link with the next light, you know So you have... You're born, you live and you die, and and then you're born again and you live and you die. But then if you say it very clearly, that this is describing what happens in every moment. Right. I understand that. Right. You're saying that it's not going on in a continuous stream. But what's not going on and I continue stream?

The mind. Which line? The mind that is the whole The individual, your individual mind is a continuous stream just like pole access, You know, which you seen and in that we took it out the garden sheds there. Small by onions original act. The heads been really would place twenty seven times in a handle you know, eighty three, but it's still paul v x. Right? That's why your mind is. And that's the kind of continuity that your mind is. It is true. Although you're not know need the same person, tomorrow as you are today.

There are some parts of your mind that lasts longer than others. And there are many parts. And so sun come some leave. You know, this is constant chain. And that's what your mind is. So there is a continuity as as long as there some parts of your mind. But What what is what... When you talk about mind, you have to be really clear. Are you talking about this mind that, you know, your experience? That you see you here, you think you feel you remember? You know, like, you did a wonderful job catalog this constantly changing flex stuff, you know.

And that's... That's what you really are. You're not this single continuous being. The continuity is the continuity overlapping continuity of parts that come and go. So the fact that there are some aspects. Of what you are at the time of your death, which may contribute to beings in the future. This this would be this would be the rebirth of the fruits of here Karma. But the you, and and you could you could conceptually, if you needed to, you could grab onto that and say, well, okay. That's myself.

But that's the continuity. There is some tendency which I've developed, which some other being would it would inherit. And which, of course, they may lose by the time they're two years old or or whatever, you know? But you could seize onto that and say, well, that's that's the root of my continuity because because it bridges the gap between the death of this body and the birth of the next one, that's that's the link I'm gonna hold on to. That's Even if you do that, conceptually, you still... You you can do that conceptually without trapping yourself in this belief that you are in End enduring separate stuff.

Now the hard part for people to understand is why on earth they would want to free themselves because we are so attached to the belief in itself. And this is what was so dramatically remarkable about the the buddha did. Because he came a lot, you know. And he said, you know, he all got wrong. The ones that say it, you live forever here reborn over and over again, infinite that number times. You know? And and you thought that was so good. And and this is why Western is like the idea of rebirth. For western is why I'm off the hook.

I'm not gonna have to die now. You know, that's why they like it. But if you look at the Indians at the time of the buddha and even write up today, they say in a different form. This is horrible. This is the worst possible thing that's gonna happen. Some of them in some forms of of both hindu and Buddhist, teachings things they adopt a ideal. We're seeking the ultimate destruction. Enlightenment involves achieving the point where we've destroyed this cell. So it doesn't ever have to come back anymore.

But that's... That's what the said was wrong. Even the material center disarmed day said They assumed they didn't in question the belief in itself. But they assumed that when the body died, the self was destroyed. You know And so this was a very depressing kind of view. Oh, no. You know, and and Christian view. And and the Muslim dear it's still cleaning this on my pressure self, you know, and the fear of what's gonna happen to this self when I die. Right? And so this is what's different about buddhism.

This is where it's different. I I you know, I have to be hear. I say Buddhism and buddhism has all these other forms. This is what's different about what the original buddha taught. He said, there's no self And, of course, yes. He said, boy, Nobody's gonna wanna hear this. There's no point in the wasting right time. Trying to teach this, you know? This is subtle deep because nobody wants to hear it, because what they don't realize is that when you get rid of the attachment to the belief itself, it solves all your problems.

Because the problem, all the problems you have that are because you're attached to this idea that I am this separate myself. What you really are... I mean, it's not that, you know, I don't exist. It's not that you don't exist that I'm not real. You're not real. But of course, you're real. But for a year. Of course, I'm real. I'm. I am what I am. But what i? M i one permanent? Or you can semi per minute. Separate and that's the key word. Separate. Entity. Because if I am, this is a disaster. But if I'm not Wow, the possibilities are unlimited.

That is the secret of this whole thing. That gets lost in the dogma of all these religious teachings and all the confusion. That the liberation is to free yourself of that separation. Now, you're not a single thing. Your many things. But but if those many things that make you up. They can be integrated. They can stop conflicting with each other. They can be unify. They may not be a single thing like a soul. Because they're still made up of parts, which means they're empty. That which is composed of parts is empty of inherent existence Absolutely.

So self is empty. But if you integrate the parts, if they function coherent smoothly, cooperative, instead of being filled with internal conflicts. Wow, that's a huge step for. So we can substitute immunity by unification. Permanent. Well, we're not permanent. All these parts are coming and going. But we are a dynamic system. You know, even the Paul bun x analogy, points to a kind of continuity. And we do have that kind of continuity. Most especially, we are self creating. Karma tells us that we create who we will be.

So we are a self creating dynamic system. We name may not be permanent, but we can definitely be stable. If we have If if we integrated the parts, then being an open system. New parts coming in old parts leading, exchanging energy, with things that are not part of the system. Not part of us. The real. The real me. I can't exchange all the kinds of things between the real me, which is dis ass of parts of five aggregate. And and the world, even though the world I'm exchanging it with is one that I project by my mind, because I can't really know the nature of what I'm projecting.

It can become very stable, very direct. It can take the form of being being happy free from suffering, compassionate, loving and and all of these other things. Now the third characteristic, that's the one that's got to go. That's the only one that's got to go. You see, we can take the fact that We are many not one and establish a unification and integration. We can take the fact that we are imp a process constantly changing and make ourselves a stable dynamic wholesome process. But the third characteristic separate, that has got to go because as long as we claim to separate nets, we're doomed to suffer.

We have to let go of the second. We have to remove the artificial boundary that the mind creates. Have to achieve that that one. Then we're free from suffering. That's the one. That's the one characteristic of this Scott. Yes. Yes. When the bible says, the sins of the father visited on the sun. Is that a mccormick statement? It is. Actually, this is either way you can look at Karma here too There there are many ways you... Karma makes. You know, it it all fits together once you kind of get rid of the Aka acoustic record magical mystical part my.

I know. People love it. Okay. You know, I I... If you if you do things, in the world that are on hold. The effects of that k and continue. Okay. If you if you accumulate a lot of wealth and become a slum landlord in Cal. Future beings are gonna be born in the salon. Right. Right. Right. So Those beings are reaping repay the fruits of your Karma. Now if you regard yourself as a separate self and them as separate cells, then god, this is totally unjust. I mean, here I have. To depends. I'm the evil guy to do this and you but the truly Evil guy would say, who cares.

Yes. Right. You are want this morning in the in the got that. You can say, this is totally unjust. That rich guy created this. Know all this une equal distribution of of wealth and resources and opportunities is the fault of these rich guys. And now they're I'll lost poor guys that are born into it. You know, so it's only unjust from the point of view of separate. Right. Everything you do is, you know, has consequences. Yeah is socially economically materially, intellectually, spiritually, all of these all of these different things.

They have consequences and beings will inherit those. As long as you identified with yourself as this unique self, then your experience life is going to be grossly unfair. No matter whether you're... Well we are. We're we're real well off. I mean, look at the unfair of life. It is totally unfair that we should enjoy a phone subaru. I forgot. Transcribe talk. It's totally... I mean, look at this this beautiful place where this. V vested weather it's and the company of such wonderful marvelous people and the air is fresh and, you know, all of this had had and after he And what we can do all kinds of things if we wanna go travel, we can go travel.

We get discover wonderful pieces of information on the Internet. And and yet, there are I'm sure, billions is the right word. Billions of human beings are are are, you know, some huge number of human beings on this planet. They don't have that. They don't have any of those things. They don't have fresh air they different places where they hair is horribly polluted. They don't have the kinds food. They're in the company of people who are abusive and nasty exploited. I think. Life is unfair. From the point of separate entities, life is grossly unfair.

And we're on the we're are and excited this unfair. No. But you might... But there are other other versions of us. No. We don't... When we we find ourselves in good circumstances, we don't say. Why need? Why need. We either... Take it for granted. Maybe careful not to notice if not everybody that's quite so well off. Or a lot of has reduce I must be great. I must be better than them. Or we say, I deserve it? But isn't you you find a lot of that? This is why this is what her He does. Mh. Well, you know, I hear it.

That's that's what's happening this country. We have all these people who they look at people who have less than that. And they say, well, you know, I deserve what I have. They must deserve what they're getting. They called republicans. That's. Exactly fact. But shut that in... But that answers easily come by. And that's one of the functions. I mean, we talked about karma serving different functions. That's one of the functions. That right up until... Well, I guess still up until today, Although know Started changing after world war two.

But for all those thousands of years, one of the whole purposes of Karma was to justify those in inequities. It was used deliberately with no no hesitation or comp. In India for five thousand years. The doctrine of Karma was used to justify the qualities. So that people could say, you know, I'm deserve it. Yeah. I know. He's miserable. He deserves it. It's his car. It could be a controlled thing too. Yeah. It did. Yeah. Because then... People would behave the behave themselves so that they would come back and and weren't better all it was an enormous control thing.

Wow. Feeling. Matter that yet. Yeah. And the history of buddhism in the period of early buddhism to see all religions same... Just in order to survive, they seem to play a role to justify the power systems it exists. And the very earliest form of Buddhism didn't do that too. Well had all these people wandering around living for free and and and places built for them in deer parts by wealthy people and giving these teachings, which didn't really support the existing status quo. So part of how buddhism got modified was to support the power systems and and existence.

And But, yes, Carmel does this. Karma supports the existing power systems. By, you know, religion plays this role, behave. If you don't behave, you know, you you're going to suffer in the future. So makes people much more docile and easily controlled. And if you don't behave, then my money isn't jeopardy. If you're not behaving, you're not showing up in my factory. That's right. Right. Interesting. Anyway. But The whole problem is this idea that we are as separate self. That's at the root of That's at the root of our suffering, that's a root of all of the things we do that suffering on other things.

When we get over that, we're not only free of suffering, but we can look at the in qualities to the injustices in the world that something can be done about, and we can do something about them. When you give over the idea of separate, then the idea that you the idea that you were somebody else in a previous life, you know, people like this idea. Right? I like the idea. I was know, I was just monk in India and previous life. And I was this. Man and germany and a previous life. And, you know, I was whatever.

Right? Me like this i idea. But the wonderful thing is that when you really get rid of the idea of separate, well i was a leg and other life times still in another life. All of you. You know... Wow, okay. Now, oh man. Now I can look at Bill, you know, and I know but it's like to bean. It's... I know it in the same way, but I know what it's like to be me. You know, we... There is... Did you ever wonder why it is that they say that when Sun becomes enlightened. There is the birth of true compassion.

A kind of compassion that can't exist otherwise ever wonder why that comes from? It's the dissolution of separate. Then, you are the and I am you. And now compassion it has is just a totally different meeting. When the earthquake happened and pay. Yes. And I watched that on Tv. I would cry. Yeah. Was that because of the sunset one that That's... Yes. That is. And as some of the doctors would put it to the degree, that has enlightened beings that we do experience that kind of compassion. That is the buddha nature with.

There is a part of us, that even though our brains are programmed from birth to create this illusion of separate inside, there's a part of us that knows better. And every experience of compassion that you have is a manifestation of that nature. And if if you did not already have that buddha nature within you, you would never be drawn to a spiritual path. And you would never take up a path to... And enlightenment that button by do. Yes. But we all do. We all have that nature within this already. It's a question of removing the delusion that is blocking us from realizing that fully.

So so the understanding this is this is this is where this all goes. Is that understanding? But realization that gets the mind out of the trap that is created for itself. And at first it seems scary and disastrous. I'm gonna lose the one thing I've cl to so strongly, all of my life, which is myself. Good but. You give up yourself and you gain the world. You ain't everything. By getting up the song. And then you have to learn how to do it. The one way that you can begin to do it, To start practicing exchanging yourself for another.

Sorry whenever you have the opportunity and you get kind aware of oh of the sense i and this other, and I care about other except. Gets to the disadvantage high. Right? Mh. So become aware of that and switch those. Take the other. And this is one. This is a really good thing about... Know. As a matter of fact, I think I think people in relationships might have a really good chance of the becoming and like really quickly. If they start applying this because if you're in a close relationship percent, right, then you can start exchanging yourself you can practice over and over again.

Every day, You know, when the toothpaste tube is left out with the lid open, you know, and the garbage hasn't been taken. Out she never does me anything. Talking about hey. Okay. You When when there there's only one piece of chocolate candy. All these i think here have all these chances to change myself for another and begin to cultivate and to to to begin to appreciate you know, a thousand little ways. How liberating is going to be to to change the nature of this boundary. You know I is it... You can expand the boundaries so that it now includes more people.

But eventually, you wanna dissolve the boundary. Right? So exchanging your yourself others is an incredibly good practice to do to to doing that. Something passed my mind, and if I was there mention as well. It seems to already gone. Maybe it'll able come back. Exchanging oneself for another. But exchanging oneself or another was your last exchanging, guys is changing yourself for another clan. It's another practice. It is also very, very powerful in this regard that It's funny anyhow funny how it slipped to away.

Maybe this isn't the time to bring it up maybe the next time. But that other time Yes. So So to sum it up, we need to go back to the original question. The out timeline. The way that we do this is by understanding paramount. We understand that it's good that we don't have a single enduring soul. It's good to recognize that we are conditioned because now we become self creating. And this is you know, there's... I remember I started presenting avoid a view of soul creation, and that's really what this is about.

You recognize that you don't have the kind of self for soul that that you intuitively assume, which causes all of your problem. So you can create. Now you have the ability to create a kind of self or soul that is based in reality that recognizes it's that that it is not one, but many and recognizes that it's condition. And then you can condition it. You recognize that even even the habit of separating yourself from the whole is something that can be overcome through the right kind of karma. So all practicing right karma.

And and then then again, this is what the six perfection, this is what keeping the pre about. Is learning how to create a different kind of karma, practicing mindfulness. P the same right effort or keeping a a mindful of the wholesome holes mental states that arise. I mean, this is all This is All learning how to work with Karma. Meditation is learning how to work with Karma. Your Karma when you begin to meditate, is to have a mind that's half asleep most of the time, and they can't say on one thing long enough to even though it is looking at.

And so Carla, you create an intention and then through repetition, you condition the mind. So meditation is Karma action. You conditioned your mind, so that if you eliminate that old thermostat you create a new karma, of stability of attention and clarity of awareness and power of mindfulness And then this gives you the tools to do all of the rest of the work that you need to do. Including. Seeing and experiencing these things directly so that it goes beyond an intellectual understanding. See what we had a conversation here.

So everything I've said, you invited freely grasp it, but you grasp it intellectually. You still right here and your gut intuitively, you're still stuck in the old way of saying Thanks. You have to create the Karma to be able to experience the truth that you intellectually can understand directly. But this part is always changing as well. Yes. That's right. Yeah. So that it as as... I take things in through my intellect. When I have the our aha. Mh. Move. That's visible. That's right. And the more aha moments you have.

The more it changes. That's right. And that's why you wanna have. You wanna bring about. Also, remember, everything in your mind is interconnected. So you have some count number of connections in your line right now that you know, are holding the self view in place. So every every aha experience of... Wow. That's really true. But you have sever a few gazillion of those connections, but all the rest are left. But when you have enough of aha experiences, then then there's nothing else, You know, the the there's nothing else else left of the trap to hold it, but...

And there are some very powerful kinds of experiences that we can have in meditation, that sever a whole lot of those connections at once. Mh. But that doesn't mean you wait for that. You keep jumping away adam them by, you know, when you understand it, keep keep having those aha moments like, oh, you know, you understand that now. If you walk out the door and forget about it, until the next time the conversation comes up, nothing's gonna change in between. If you walk out the door and say, okay.

I have to test this in my experience. I have to carry this around in my mind all day long and and and and test this. And see if I can see it. See if I can, you know... It's call counting doubt. And you're overcome adults of the application. And that's what you need to do. What's your whole problem is the view that you are a separate self. Not that you think you exist and you don't. And I I almost cry wanna hear people say that, you know? Because if you think your job is to convince yourself that you don't exist, but, you know, you you're never gonna to succeed.

But you're even if could wouldn't go any anywhere good. That's right. Even be good good. You know Mh. So that's not what it's about. It's to realize what you really are. Because you really are realize what you really are. And to realize that one you really are is not separate from the hold. And what's really interesting is this element of consciousness because as you probably have already had thoughts like this before. But your consciousness could somehow move into somebody else's mind. Would it be any different with the consciousness selfie be any different?

Thanks. Yeah. Because of the physical aspect of the mind and then it's mh a chemical electrical system. That has some hard wiring in it. Mh. And and and so that would be the camera you would be viewing the illusion from. You you you do you'd put it in... If the consciousness is is is the picture, then the mind is the projector. That... And and if you put it in, it that it would look a little bit different from every. Well, you're absolutely right. So you're you are absolutely right. So the question is, Yeah.

Is consciousness, the picture. Or is consciousness the projector? Or is consciousness just something else again? And I don't know what it is. I just can't even fine consciousness. Yes. It's sure you can't even define consciousness. Yeah yeah. That's right. This point is is superficial... I think I know it it is. Mh. And the one look at it deeper. And I don't know it's... Yeah. I then. We have other words for it. There's lots of synonyms. You know Mh. But they they don't... That's right. Yes. Right.

Would it be limiting to think of is both the projector and the picture. That's still limiting? Well, What do you think? Does it make sense to you? The consciousness is both the picture and the projections? Yes. And something else. And something else thus the rub. I understood for being. I mean, I don't know who I do that. But i do. But this is this said, we won't go into this any further discussion. But this is another thing too to reflect on. It's helpful and yes to to... What is what is the nature of consciousness.

And then when you think you have it nailed down examine more closely. And... Yeah. Your mind will naturally tend to reduce try to reduce consciousness to something that you can grasp and label. Isn't that we all know what it is, but there isn't a way to talk about it. I agree. We all know We all experience. I don't know if we all know what it is. But because i... I that... That's that's better experience. And We all experienced it as consciousness of would you agree with him? I mean just based on based on your experience, I think.

Most people would agree with this that it's conscious and so. So we can imagine Okay. So we can ask yourself. Well, it's true. All I ever experience is being conscious of something. But as a thought experience, what would it be like if there was no something to be conscious of. Would there still be consciousness? And what is your gut feeling? I think mine is absolutely true. So when when you say conscious... I I hear two I think we use the the word in two different ways. You know, I I I... I'm I'm conscious of this bottle.

Right. Okay. But when I think of consciousness, mh, I think of that Well, it's it it's it's a awareness. It's a live. It's Knowing. This. Yeah. Right. Right. Okay. Well, okay. Just I'll just give you something you think about. And one more little thing about this. Okay. The objects of consciousness Obviously, come and go. So if you can imagine consciousness without an object. Does that mean it's continuous? Take your time. Don't have to answer your question today. What does... Let's just see the implications?

So see where it takes you. Okay. So now we know how to use Karma. Right? I think so. Right. I think that. Anyway. Which is more useful. That view department or that... Everything that happens to me is due to something I didn't previous is like. No. I'll take the other one. Okay. Right. I mean, at least if you're interested in becoming enlightened, Mh. Then this is much more useful to kinda. Right. Mh. Alright. If you're interested in keeping yourself? Out of trouble that's That contributes. What's that?

Keeping yourself out of trouble contribute. Keeping yourself how to struggle continue. But I would say that if if you take... If you take the original buddha interpretation of Karma, you'll definitely... You're far more likely to stay out of trouble. I mean, you know the times that the the the times you've done something that you knew you're gonna regret Did it anyway. Yeah. There's... That even happens when you believe in Karma and next life. Mh Right. Right. Right. But if you if you're... If you understand Karma and his role in causing you to to become enlightened, you're less likely.

To do something that you know you're going to regret. There's you're kinda feeling a different yeah. I mean, that next life sometimes seems so remote. As a matter of fact, most of the time seems so low. But if you wanna become awakened in this life, you don't know how much time you have. In might end take it through tomorrow morning. That's really.

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