The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC 4 March 2010 part 2

Automated transcription

So the woman guys is spoken to the fight. Yes. And it says then about each of the five. I. U. That he says they material form is fundamental public they say permanent but is what is permanent, pleasant or an. Unpleasant. Job. What if you need the Norm It is. My question is, something that's important is neither pleasant nor unpleasant it. It just is the... Well, you're absolutely right. That it just is. But he's speaking to them really from the point if view the way that we normally experiencing.

We are... We experience Du, because the everything then the world is is in her. And that's what he's calling extension to. And it's you know, in the absence of crib and now are of clinging. The imp of things is just the way they are. You're absolutely right. But that's the... That's the understanding that he's he's guiding them towards and both of these together. So... Yeah. And so. Thank you for that great question. Yes. And you can you use the like, the start by step logic? Does it like a coles pants?

Can't a follow i choice? Yes. So all calls things are and because that must be It's the cause they must be occurring, if total i must be empty. That. Me is that just the logical explanation in why and that's spelled out in this sutra. Because that seems to be the the whole crux of the is never quite goes firms the punch just a minute Well, you're right. Alright. I understand. Mh. And that's that's why, you know, it's one of the things that I I want everyone to be aware of is it when you When you read these teachers, you'll you'll very often find that that that to really understand it relies on some crucial pieces of information that's discussed in great detail elsewhere.

But not being finish I done. And yeah. So now you notice In in that first sutra on four dr truths. It ends with with. It says there the the Da i, the Stainless louis on high awakens, and it says a aha. That which rises due to causes and conditions has been great. Right? And so there is. Spare that recognition of the suffering nature of that networks just and permanent as you attached to. And also, of course, the recognition with the self we claim to rise due causes and conditions, so it cannot be permanent at by.

The emptiness aspect didn't start being specifically brought out until some of the later teachings. If you look at the four applications at mindfulness so the floor foundations are mindfulness, the fourth of those which is mindful or of the the dominoes know Well, it's difficult put it in English mindfulness of Domino's has done as. But Domino's are mental objects. And so what that really means is is mindful of the mind created nature of metal objects, which is another way of saying the mind created nature of reality.

So he's talking about Mt there. But it takes in a while in his teaching to start stressing or or acknowledge I shouldn't say stressing that because it really isn't until several centuries after to that already. Had his party Mah par the nevada before Buddhist began putting the emphasis on a large emphasis on d hampton us. During the buddha life, he put all all of the major emphasis on the anti herself. Now he said that you're empty self, and all things are empty yourself. But the answer was on You've been anti of assault.

And everything else being activated here self nature was just for mentioned and passing almost. Well, brought out he things like they've satya put on the sutra that I just mentioned, and number other teachings. Like like this the mah sutra or it's a great anti emptiness sutra, which is one of the few places very explicitly smart about. Hampton emptiness. But even there, He's talking about how one profound medi experience is empty of the content. And particularly, the Du nature of the preceding of of you well, preceding, yeah.

Preceding deep out of states. So why why didn't he begin in in the beginning making the same emphasis on all of these things? My guess is that his teaching of evolved. Remember this was his very first... Piece his very first to teaching him so he was... Well, actually, even that's not quite. These are two very relatively short sutra. The first one, they... Done Paul, the the turning Of the dha, we takes less than twenty minutes to recite. And the the the next one, the on that... Like Hana or there Sutra on the characteristic of no self is even shorter probably takes less ten minutes.

Or like. Yep. This period of teaching, he was teaching virtually day and night to these five companions for many days on hand. There's a whole lot that logged out this. So that's why we have look at the rest of the teachings, and we have to sort of fill in the gaps. There's a bit there. So but my guess is that there's several factors in this first teaching, there are a lot of things I don't know the who applies to your question, but some of the other things that we seen in these sutra, there's a lot of things that he didn't really need to talk about.

Because these are these companions over the years had been studying many of the same disciplines and in same practices that he have. So there were some things that he didn't need to specifically adjust. But I think also, there were things that he perhaps didn't really appreciate the need to bring out in the teaching and until he was teaching different people under different circumstances. So And and that's one of the things that over and over god find that people have admired his teaching for and that is admirable and his teaching is the way that he gears it very specifically to his audience.

So not much of an answer except, I guess he didn't think she really needed to go into that part and certain searches. So but I'm was serious about the homework thing. So I just wanted to check again about, you know Have you been working on understanding the all pervasive nature of D? And distinguish do that is our physical origin, unpleasant physical sensation from Du code that is meth origin. Have you've been doing. You have. And if you had Dan, I want you to do this? This was what this this is the idea is that you start paying attention.

Now you know that if a causes b Then if you find b, that you know, with the a had to be here as well. Right? Or has they say where the smoke fire? Right? Because we buyer positive the smoke. So if you see smoke, you can look for the fire. Now. And this teaching the buddha first step. That duke is caused very crazy. So if that's true, you know, and and this is what you need to test. Then. Whenever you find yourself experiencing, you there should be crave behind that. And so whenever there's stu, it means that you have the opportunity to look and and discover, but creating that's behind that.

Is anybody gonna doing that? yeah. That'll happy. Me yeah And have you discovered anything? No but they charter any result or not? Every time I find myself think that the create, you know, in my mind out or even loud. I'll say crazy you know, draw my attention right to it, and I've surprised at how many times during the day. I have to say crazy to myself. It's this a lot. Yes. Right. So... Yeah. It's really... It's better. Now you recall that part of the teaching he said that that doo it was to be understood.

He said that Cra was to be not only understood, but end that And how do you tried that? There's when you make something where? Like, oh this is the crazy. He's probably lighting down of it. And what did you find? Yeah. But keep probably found sometimes, it works. Mh. And when it does, it's amazing. If you let go the craving, that the big this disappears. But yes. I'll you fine. It's easier sir than that. Well, i felt attention to myself of craving as soon as I think crazy, believe and or not it see into the now.

Mh. It brings me more into the present and gonna to go go and mh for thirty seconds. Time took anything but nobody, but does help. Help me. Well, creating is creating really is about abandoning the present and going to the future. And if we, you know, if we look at something that comes up later on and the each english is a twelve lengths of dependent origin origin, that you'll see that craving leads the claim game, which ways to becoming And I it, we're always propelling ourselves into into a future rather than being.

Right. When he abandoned P, then you are you abandoned the sequence that is propelling you out of the into a not yet existing future, and you find yourself at least at least that tiny moment that's creating. What's. Yes. Yeah. Craig also be refer and go doesn't you prefer to think that is happened impact Well, do you I I think what you're saying is don't sometimes have... Wish that things have not had or you want sent or you're craving for something that used to be but is no longer. Mh. Yeah. We can disrupt it to point where I realize that that is an agent sometimes even a child's craving and is just coming up in another form.

You're referring to the source? Great. Yes. Okay. Now that's that's a very good point. If we... When we start to examine on craving, we find it's it's due to conditioning. A lot of times, the conditioning is obvious. Yes and we find ourselves trading things that we don't even enjoy that much anymore. Just have habit it. Is that kinda hanging you're talking about? No. Yes, ma'am. I see that what I think I want or let's you can be uncomfortable is because of something possibly that I didn't lay way way more time go dental carrying the pain with that.

Yeah we can tell that that is your mind condition. And then that helps me let it go. So this is good. Alright. Anybody else? Anything else here? Yes. I think if I recall correctly, The said. That one should leave this word? Did I read that right correctly in the beginning where he said that one one needs to give off. And just work and I think what move. Just about not being going to the virus. Well, it's easier to do bit. Yeah. Well, no. That's it. He he he did he did in fact, it hurts large number of people to go to the farm.

But he also had very luck yeah. Very with large not late decided see got very far. Yeah. So that's it's it's definitely not a case of that's the only way. The important you're thing, the important thing is giving up our attachment world. And going to the forest gives way making it a little bit easier to do and the beginning. Yeah. So. Okay. So We we had... You had looked into it and you have discovery to reflection, and how are you you're hopefully starting to overcome any doubts you may have. And indeed this relationship.

Between Na, Du, and and Craig his val what? I you discovered a very interesting thing. That is give abandoned creating as easier said. They're done. But attempting to abandon it and banding it whatever you can is a very important part of the practice towards getting towards the achievement of a third our double three which is a cessation in it breaking. And of course, it has this wonderful side benefit that every time you succeed and abandon abandon creating, you've diminished the suffering that you're subject to immediately.

So So we do need to look more deeply into why why this... Where is this creating from anyway? Have you sorry about that? Wife? Do you crave? To do with Then we're saying, you know from way back how we you board my things how we were punished with things and but we didn't get or what we thought we need and whatever that is, but it is so deeply ingrained then then there's this progresses into into patterns of this is where the reward is and this is what I want going to avoid, you know? Yes. Well. We seem to come into into this world pre predisposed to to craig.

Something tastes good. We want more of it and something hurts we wanted to stop And both of those are examples of creating. So much of our those to our craving is condition, you know, when when a little kid does something positive and you had them on the head, and you go oh, good boy or good girl. Then they get the impression that when they do a certain thing they're then lovable right where they're acceptable. And and then they crave that validation. And we create the craving right through the socialization where.

That's right. So we start off pre predisposed to respond to pleasure and pain to creating. And then from our almost our very first contact with other human beings as as we develop and as we're able to understand our interactions so beings. They don't work on conditioning us. Yeah. Too. Both manipulating us through our creating. Or if you're you're good boy. I'll give you a piece of candy. And and it just pronounced from there, of course. Many of the things that we have cravings for and versions for their acquired preferences or acquired dislike.

That really did result of not just our own experiences. But but the influences of other people and a particular society time to think that certain things are desirable that and other cultures wouldn't be. So But there is this... What I'm getting at is, why do we have creating a all? You know It... Although it's very important to look at and considered all of the different ways that creating and how we manage him about having all of it kinds of craving. We do all of all of the specific cravings that we do that are due to conditioning.

You know, and this is it... This is Karma when Buddha said, that that's when I say, Karma, I mean intention and then he would to explain that it's our intentions condition our might. So... But while I... Why human the games have craving at all? It did some do with survival. Absolutely. Absolutely, it has to do with survival. The other thing that who said about craving, which has his two forms of desired and inversion. He said that desire and ignorance always occur together and version and ignorance always security detector together.

And so you never find pre except with hi ignorance. That's a very interesting thing isn't it. But. What does he mean by ignorance? Does he need not knowing the capital pull it? Yes. The ignorance then from seeing your world is coming from. That thinking that it's not So he's talking about ignorance about the way things are. And my ignorance he's he's talking about the delusion to perception that we hold. Rather than than they understanding of the way things really are. And the essence of that is that Our diluted perception is that we live in a world of self existent objects.

And we are likewise, self existing. And So this creates the dynamic that requires that they say have requires is pretty. It's a dynamic that requires screen. It puts us puts us. In perpetual conflict between the cells and everything that that's not stalled. And... So the sentence itself... Gets the sense the set itself that it's the division of what is and to self and everything that's not so. K? And that division dan. Put you in the position of trying to look after for the needs of yourself and trying to protect and prevent injury and loss to itself.

Yeah. And That's the that's the origin of conflict right tax. So. Go ahead. It it's no thirst. Mh. Is it ignorance that they want water? Did they create water? If they don't have a till doc. This is a really their thing they survive as an individual our line. Well i I heard the system. First of all, creates the sensation so there's. Right? And our mind that crave water. Mh. We desire water. Okay. Now if we Understand that is i have thirsty and suffering because of my first and I need water. Okay.

Then that... That's when the ignorance is press. I mean I I enlightened being who is not as attached sense himself. We'll be aware of the signals the body creates that there is there is an need for water if for sake it up to the body. But we you? What time? Without craving without creating. But what we experience is the craving for weather. And if the craving for wired becomes strong it enough, We like injure somebody else in order ready to take their water away. Or do all kinds of ugly things. That's where the comes out.

The ignorance, you see our minds, are creating this idea and this feeling that we are a separate self. And the reason that our clients do that is to compel us through craving. To behave and ways that meet the needs of for body that we are so that it survives and reproduce itself. So we can't by this honestly. The belief in himself his ignorance ignorance, but we were actually throat instead of hitting let's delusion. Okay. The belief in the self is delusion. Everything... What we say that word ignorance.

It doesn't quite convey accurately plus grant. It's the delusion. It's not the absence of knowledge. It's actually the replacement of right understanding with what understanding. Can't we can't say their well. You know, we we have this solution because, you know, there's something There's some fault of ours causes us to have this division. Now we were born designed to have the vision. It is inherent within us to have this. It is only as human beings that we have the option of going beyond that and replacing the dilution with wisdom.

We also can buy our improving, quite honestly. Because biologically, you know, it's creating is a comp. It's not quite as automatic and and hiring cloud comp as instinct dips you know, simpler beings have instincts that something triggers the pain and then the behavior plays out. And there's, you know, it's just... It it happens. We... And and animals whose lives are ruled by instinct, aren't are not able to learn. They're very, you can't they can't learn or or just they can learn and some of them can learn a bit.

They can't learn very much. Lizards are not very train compared to dogs, for example. Right. So in different kinds of organisms you see some are much more they much more live according to this automatic instinct. And so are what's fully controlled by an instinct but there are still emotions, these compulsions that they have more latitude that end state. But they still direct her behavior of and in particular way. As human beings, what we have are these compulsions? And they're they're born, the very simple ones is that that Our ancestors, h ancestors, lived an environment where The sugars present and fruits and certain kinds of foods were extremely beneficial and valuable.

To take advantage Of of on whenever they were available. And so we were born with liking for sweets. Sweet things. Right? So sugar is not inherently sweet. And sugar's is not inherently pleasant. It's the way we respond to sugar. The sweetness isn't in the sugar, it's in our minds and in our taste buds. And the desire for sweet things that arises is part of this mechanism. So we're programmed to create those things, which are beneficial to us to our bodies, but also where like organisms with social organ we live social groups so that we're also tend to crave those things, which enhance our standing in social group, which improves our likelihood of survival.

It includes our our reading of opportunities and number of offspring and they improves the likelihood that our offspring her again right. Sort like. And we didn't decide any of that. We were just set up so that compulsions would arise. And It's not like instinct that that we had to be born with all the things that we have desire for into or all of the things that we would have aversion to already programmed into us. A few basic things like sweet, we like pain, we don't like, you know, things like that.

But most of them, we have learned and acquired had conditioned ourselves to So what we identify is being beneficial to us. To ourself to the self, but we were programmed the yours ourselves I'm saying. We you created it. We created it in the form of desire. Those things that we see as threatening to this harmful to and undesirable in, creating takes to form by inversion. We want to we want to separate our ourselves channel. We want to eliminate it, destroy it. Maybe even kill it depending on what it is and how strong feeling is.

So Craving and the sense of self are separately linked to each other. You came enter to this world with a mind pre predisposed to see your to see itself and the body that it travels around in has a self. Your mind is also pre predisposed to crave those things that you identify as beneficial to your yourself. So that's that's basically where this kinda strong. That's the relationship is there. Now. But let's look at this craving. This is your you know, eyes ears or sense, deliver certain kind of information to the line.

In the mind, does a little computing and identifies how that's what this is. And then categorize it is something I want or something I don't want. And man, then what does your mind do? If it's something that you done lot. It there's another heart in your mind that floods your mind with a feeling of dissatisfaction. Maybe strong dissatisfaction may mild dissatisfaction. But your mind makes itself feel dissatisfied. It creates as where is the satisfaction? Where stupid go contract? Mind makes it? Doesn't come for any anywhere else.

But my makes it. Some part of your in mind, its whole job is, you know, whenever the phone rings, yep. Okay. Time write out three units to after. That's that's built identity. Dissatisfaction. D is the dissatisfaction. And a course dissatisfaction is when you want something to be some some... Way different in the way it is. So you see the piece of cake. Says okay. Tastes good. One time. Creating razors. Dissatisfaction cranked up couple notches next thing you know you're doing whatever whatever we need to do to get of that escape.

Because sit say, I look at my garden, and I'm not happy but I'm just satisfied with with that going. Right. And so then motivated be to change that garden. We put it's more peeling and bleeding to me. I I don't quite understand the stuff ranges that we need to eliminate to just leave room. I I can understand a lot of it because I catch myself through through been thin and and a lot of them i plan gain which i united. Yes. So. So why why do you experience dissatisfaction about something things that Seems so totally irrelevant to the actual well of your body of minds.

And that's an important question because if you think about it in awful lot of the dissatisfaction that you experienced is not about anything this is very important or relevant at all. As matter fact, if if your mine was somehow just restricted itself to the things that really did make a difference to your sort of reproduction. One would be simpler. But now once the mechanism is there, once it's built into wants part of how you function, then, it ends up being applied to all kinds of things. You know?

You you can't stand the shower curtain with these orange trying side. You know? Why should that guys you suffer? I mean, even even the dislike you hold for it, it doesn't actually sc your eyes but look at it. You know But you do you feel like. So it's what's the mechanism is there. Once we start judging and evaluating assigning, you know, values of desi or un desi that all the rest of the mechanisms are going to they're just going to operate. And so, you know, you look at your garden, perfectly good garden.

But, you know, you're dissatisfied is you want the carrots on the other side i'm my god. Great so flower. Right. There is nothing wrong with create duty. Now, and this is this is a question. Do you have to experience dissatisfaction to create the? Let's ask somebody who create beauty. Do you have to have this satisfaction to create duty? Because. It's a good motivator. Yeah. Sometimes it is. Yeah. But I suppose it's the way though about it. It is... Yes. It's the way you go about. You can be a aware of the impressions.

But doesn't need to come into the place of a comp something that disturb you, something, you know, hasn't matter fact. If you see something and there arises you the idea that it would be much better this way. Then you can derive great satisfaction from making it deep dark way. You you don't need to... It doesn't need to descend to the point of comp. But very often it will. You know. But it does. It's not essential. I'd like to ask some who that because I I I you know, I know all this stuff kind of rise in me...

Of the beauty thing. You. Yeah. I noticed that if I if I don't attempt just something that I notice Might be made beautiful or more convenient or whatever. I mean, if if I don't attend to it, Mh. Then then there's a repetition. The I can see the mind repeating. And time I go by that garden or whatever it is the purple stripes on the shower curtain, whatever it happens to be, if I don't attempt to it fairly soon then there's... The mind engages in this this rhythm dissatisfaction. So that's just the little little thing I noticed this I try to.

Yes. Nice. You what helps. So. Every time you experience attraction to something or dissatisfaction with something these prep, which makes it easier for to rise again the next time. And it initially becomes stronger. Better walk by store and seen something and then you walked by the end saw again. After a while, you've reached this point where you actually have to have that. Specifically talk about blue a question. Why that's bad in in of itself. And and not real. And So in the question about creating and the the example of what.

Now is this where the middle way comes in the concept of the need of excessive in terms of senses nor sensitive terms of Listen certainly, this is a very good application of the middle way. Yes. Dang not not not going too far. Either right. Let's look at this. So, you know, we can see the relationship between the things that are next here. Let's go back to something we talked about report. Desire for it enlightenment that. Good that. Good. Alright. I should better if I The buddha, you like at and he he here he is a totally enlightened and being, the the Sam Son due to the most enlightened being of our Kara.

Fair. In the big sense. Care. Yeah. This particular buddha Era. And obviously, he did a lot of things. He manifested a lot of judgment of it would this would be better than that then took actions. The teachings made suggestions, to bring about changes in those way. So what's the difference between that and sorry to pray anybody we're talking about here. It's the comp rooted in the sense set. That desire to away him to become enlightened. Is a good thing. But it does have this one problem with it.

Is that As long as we have as long as we're attached to the sense itself, then that that desire is hooked into the idea of who it is is going to be in, like It's not that there's anything wrong with the objective and there's not anything wrong with the net processes that say it would be a lot better off if these five aggregates were awakened that have to keep going through the world and ignorance and suffering. The way they do. You know, that's a really good thing to have that recognition. And it's a really good thing to take the actions out there's nothing wrong with that at all.

And it's a matter to hide. You don't wanna try to get rid of that. But when... But once once you've done all of the other work, you have to let go of the idea of why. And so there can be a manifestation of choice decision movement, but it doesn't need to be rooted in the eye. The other part about craving and it is that it's not the blanket idea of desire is bad. But craving is a comp. It's that built in thing that that tends to drive us can tell us forward it latest behave, make a feel particularly right.

And then make us behave because of the way that we feel. So that's where we need to do that. That is is these things. And this what we're doing is we're looking to change the way that the way that aren't minds work. So the dude is saying what? You're going to be in this world, experiencing a lot of different. Now, of course, the part of it gets do pain to the the the physical i pleasant. That's gonna keep happening. That's not I gotta change. But all of this that is met, including the way that we take a physical discomfort and turn it into and and, you know, a a pain that we can't suffering but we can't just can't stand.

All of this is due to this mechanism and find that they call craving. And it says that if you can bring out the cessation of this mechanism, then it will stop causing the mind to be flooded with this feeling of du this to dissatisfaction. And so from there, what we need to look at is okay, how we make this happen? This is this is what what we're doing. We're taking the kind of being that we came into this world ads. Which includes not only certain predisposition like self and cra. It also includes their capacity, overcome those.

It has born with a to replace delusion, self delusion with wisdom. And to bring about the cessation agreed, leaving us still able to function make changes and do all kinds of good things in the world. But no longer rooted end the delusion of south and no longer compulsive. So that's where we're trying to take out the whole thing. Maybe this example of the laden being was thirsty but doesn't create a larger. Are you saying that the enlightened being doesn't have any survival it constraints any anymore and related to that?

No just. Okay. Yeah This and like thing we'll experience all of the same sensations are first. Okay? But They will not pick out the comp that we ordinarily experience. And the enlightened line doesn't see it as there is a itself that I must take care of, but rather I I would think that when the buddha became thirsty, it was, you know, as much as if he knew that Another somebody else was thirsty, he would do whatever could to provide them with water. So, you know, we took care of The... He took her of his five out gets in the same with the same respect with the same loving consciousness with the same compassion.

That he would anybody else was. But he was free from the delusion that death this five aggregates was anything other than an imp constantly changing collection of processes, which was not separate from anything else. Yeah. But this this situation was related to weeks dream that somebody would even care to get that desire in this case, met by. So you have scenario maybe the light me and another going through the desert and they like being thirsty and and the other guy doesn't share the water would they like being take the water or kill her?

What you what you die? And in you order not to do that. You know that would be the extreme. There's a... That... There there's a good thought problem. You know. But what do you think? This you know? But I don't know So you know... Well. There are a lot of what it called jot tails that are supposedly things that happened to do in previous slides. Many of these stories were around long before the buddha was born and later they were transcribed to his previous place. So there's sort of like, Ai soft fable and things like time.

But anyway, with within collection of stories, There are any different examples that when the buddha sacrificed her except he was that. Who was the bog side. But the Vote sacrificed sacrifice his own, life, part of the benefit of Of will line with Cubs or, you know, those different stories. So what this tells us is that other people who thought about the same question came to the conclusion that, you, Bo software's at least would would go ahead and die rather than you know, deprive the other person of their water.

You know. One of the things I struggle with the idea of craving enlightenment, And and this isn't my my buddhist studies, but much of my my focus goes into trying to be totally present. Mh. And that it's only in the present that I will experience that craving is about something I would like to have which in actuality keeps me from already being what I am. That's a very correct state night. Yes. And, you know, it it is true to become enlightened you need to let go over that. But, you know, when you say craving for enlightenment, Just so say craving, the conjure up at least for me, the.

I wanted it. For seven. I won't would be happy and? I won't be happy. Until I get. Right. No. And and that is... And and and that's where the the problem is, you know, The the idea that that being will achieve enlightenment is not the problem. It's this high for me. I right. So... And the first one one way you're helping to get around that a little bit is the the reality of bog each that which means that wish for enlightenment not for your own sake. But for the sake of other being so that, you know, I will be become enlightened so that I can help things.

And know, So wonderful idea. It it hits. It it doesn't by itself, eliminate the attachment to self. But it definitely puts a a a cheek in the armor of the belief and so. It allows me to move away from that. Adam as as your understanding rose and as your experience grows. There is naturally a less strong belief attachment. In the cell. You begin to see through it it kind more more transparent. And then it becomes more a situation of wishing for the enlightenment of these five aggregates not for some self, but the aggregate imagine that they are, Because always, if it whenever it comes back to to projecting the idea myself, that's going to prevent you from achieving your goal.

I think So what did it and and and that... Okay. So back we originally sorry you said Vanity proving is not always easy to do. And so if abandoning credit in specific instances isn't easy to do. That bringing about the total cessation of it is going to be probably even more difficult. Now when we see though, the relationship between craving and the mines generation of the view of it being a separate self. As long as your mind is holding that view, you're not going to be able to stop craving. You're not going to be able to eliminate great.

So it's absolutely essential. There's no way to achieve the goals of the third truth until you able to overcome distribution. So that's this dan. Now you you can work towards it and you absolutely should work towards issue. Practice mindfulness whenever these new, look for this look for crazy. And where wherever you find the craving? If you can, release. Let go. But as far as raining about it says safe cessation, in order to do that, you have to go this route. You're going to have to get to that state.

Where your mind Cease cease is self. And first of all, you have to get to that state where mind stops bleeding in its own self. Even when the self making is taking place. So that is that is the that's the way he to to get it done. Now the hateful path, the next part is is the way of practicing that and help bring this about and essentially, All the rest of the darn teachings are of one way or another about the eighth path. Kind of how to actually do this. Have a bring this case. But What do you think?

Has your doubt that over half? Not yet. No. Okay. Well, then it to keep explorer. And this one, you know, we you'd have to understand what it is that you're... What the delusion is that you're trying to overcome? Okay. It's saying we have to get over this delusion that we are a separate self. And see that similar secret is the most important part of this. Self has absolutely meaning. The word has done meaning Except. In terms of some valve is that cell from other. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean that you don't think exist.

You know And I know you probably heard cheap say that I heard people say that. For people. Think that that this means they don't exist. Doesn't mean that you don't exist. And these you are But we call the five aggregate case you are body in involved. But body in mind, the the body in mind that you are when you examine and examine that closely, do not possess either in any part of them or in their entirety. The characteristics of a self that been walking around taking that either? They are just what they are.

And I think more have talking less. And that's really what the second sutra was about. Not to look kind of the characteristic of of stuff. I had get as I have Brian pointed out. It leaves it leaves a lot of questions unanswered unfulfilled as a matter of fact, the way we usually get it. It's a little bit satisfying The buddha says. Of each of the aggregates. Here's a permanent permanent and part. Is what is permanent satisfactory you're sorry do or not doing very well. That's good. Yeah. But he he also says, can't...

If if this self, then you could make it d whatever you want. It form herself and you could make form b whatever wants. If feeling yourself, then you should be able to have anything bitty on should have only And he look at those and they're not very convincing, are not But let's look at this way. Let's go back to understanding how the self perceived. Is perceived as having three characteristics and two functions. The characters six are that it's single. And it's easier if can find out there is no single.

So that it is a biting you know, enduring permanent gonna maybe eternal, maybe not a term. But, you know, definitely, this same self continuous period your time. The third characteristic is that it's sacred. So what you're looking to see is if if there is the single that's end during this and the segment. Then there's the two functions. The functions are the owner of experience and the doe of dates, the intended or intentions and so forth. Now I think that when we look at the second sutra that if we look that, we can see that those functions are what being addressed.

I don't think there's been any being in the world who hasn't assumed that the self was what experience. Thanks. Right? What are? Well, i'm one that experience system And one the one that does. You know, I decide what I can to. Yeah. I have my thoughts. I made my choices. So if this... If If somebody is going to make a strong argument, that that kind of cell isn't present in the had. They're gonna have to address this owner of experience issue and this student needs. And I think that's what the buddha does here.

This the way I read it. The buddha this says, you know, with with felix. Is their self and feeling. In other words, within the feelings within the five, within feelings perceptions with mental patients. Already finding the the owner of experiences. And are you finding the doe of deeds? Now when he says, if ford so, you could have any form of view on it. Is is it the doe of deeds and that? If feeling self you have whatever feeling you want. I think that what this is what this was originally to plaintiffs us to is that when we look in the fire is, we're not going to find that self that does things and make decisions.

So we're not going find that cell. That is the recipient of all of our experiences. We're going to find that... Well, we're gonna look for it. And we're not gonna find it. We're gonna find that our actions and our decisions arise out of conditioning. And they rise out of different sets of conditioning at different time that in any given moment, you're faced with a choice. And certain Certain mental formations and certain conditioning that you brought into that moment are going to dictate the decision that you're gonna choose to they left for instead of the ready for.

Except that if you wait that, different conditioning, then it might turn around and you'll choose right for a considerable look for. So even your initial experience to that decision, didn't arise from any sort of singular cell. Multiple parts. And not everybody was resent... It was represented when the first vote was taken. And other that other parts of this self showed up and it shifted the vote it's another way. Right? And if you reflect honestly on all of your your decisions and all of your actions, they are the result of your past conditioning.

You know, it's not as though do the south entity with perfectly free choice and will that can make the decision to do A... I mean, what is the first thing you you do when you have a decision? Do you start drawing you dr up all the pros and cons including the emotional pros and cons, not just the logical ones, but the emotional ones. And they all kind of rattle around to circle with each other and, you know, somewhere out of that you come off with a a first action. And then you say, well, I decided.

What where the eye that decided what to do? Your mind generates feelings of pleasure and dissatisfaction i. Where is the eye in your mind that decides to produce a feeling a pleasant unpleasant or deed pleasant around? Seriously. Can... I mean, isn't gonna a ridiculous those question? There's not eye in there that's gonna decide whether it just gonna make. But your conditioning will play a huge role in that. Right? Your perception. The way you perceive a particular person, maybe you somebody you worked with or neighbor.

Is there some eye in there that decided that I'm gonna perceive this person as as this delightful friendly person or I'm gonna perceive this person as a a as a a phony pretending be really nice, but I think they're up to that You know try again. Right? It just counts. Comes there. You know. You have least perception. So I think I think that that's what the buddha is addressing in there. I don't think That's excellent after sure that. Bye. We do want we do want to look into these in explorer these things.

And Definitely what the Buddha said is he suggested to us that body in mind and then he divided mind up into feelings perceptions, medical formations, and consciousness or awareness witnesses. He said, he suggested that that those five would account for everything that was any part of our experience at everything that had been wasn't the president was likely to be in the future that if we look, we weren't gonna find anything missing, that they included in there. And then he invited us further once we satisfy ourselves of that to see whether anywhere in there we found the kind of self that we thought we would or even if the collective as a whole that the definition of the stuff.

And that's usually, the next conclusion when you look in it, you say, well, I don't see I don't see a self hidden in any of those powder. Well, it's the whole thing taking together. The right right off the top, When you take all the aggregates together you've lost the single nicholas. When you reflect for even a moment, you find there is nothing enduring that constantly changing. They... Well, if we do a little analysis, we discover the body is actually nothing the sensations so we experienced. Sensations are constantly rising and passing your away.

Feelings are rising kinda seem way. Perceptions change. Even of the same Object, we have different perceptions at different time. The mental formations air experience we have modi our collection and mental formations. It's constantly changing. And the awareness, we have the six different kinds of awareness is consciousness, but they rise and fall with they objects that they're aware. So you look you look there and you don't find anything there is an enduring center the totality the parts that make it up constantly changing.

They're not all process. And as far as the separate goes, you see this all conditioned. So this The fight aggregates can't be a self existent itself because it's the dependent upon its parts. But it's also can't be a self existent self because all those different parts depend on causes and conditions. That are outside of it. Right. So what you're left with is the self the just of projection of the night that is is on. And that projection ignores the fact that that there are many different parts of this and that they are constantly changing and that they all individually horizon in pass away data and conditions.

So that's the self that we're getting dealing believing it. When we get beyond believing that itself and we've worked on the real that the real crux side of it. Is this idea of separate next. As long as we claim to the idea of separate no seeing one form right other, we're going to regenerate all the other parts of it. So instead of trying to just shut off all and just try to get rid of the illusion of yourself. Well, maybe instead of that, just has... In addition to whenever there is Du looking for the crazy that that is its source.

And in addition to attempting to abandon that preview, if you can, And the other thing that you can do is to see if you can to see it how is that the treatment that you do identify whenever you're able to identify, is rooted in the sense itself. And then if you get that far, then see if if if there be... If the re is a self behind that. All for the purpose of just satisfying yourself that this proposition that the Buddha has put forward to us might really d true and really work. To agree that you can your conviction that you are a separate self.

You're gonna find everything else becomes easier. Than find. It becomes easier to let growth. And find that there is less suffering at way. You'll also find that you have far less comp to commit actions that are on hold. It because why earth would you tell something that is not true or take something that was not freely given or do something or say something that was potentially harmful if for somebody else. It's only because the you feel it is going to benefit yourself and that there is some craving to mh do that to do benefit the myself.

So Your meditation is a really good opportunity to do this. When you sit down to meditate to other experienced Du? Yes. Is the kind of overwhelming do that's hard to sort of clearly? Not usually. Right? It's real subtle kinds of different simple kinds of codes. And so that's an opportunity to look for where the create and here you are clear focus mind. Like, feel you behind the defect. And if you can see her trading and look for self behind the k. And you know, after a while when you funded it, you know, you start to become more horse for of this attachment to self and of the comp preview.

And this is actually This is the work... This is the preliminary work that you do to get you to the place where you experience the the cessation of creating. And the the change in the way mind works so that even though there's still a sense of self. Do you no longer believe it at the same way he did before. They say, or, what there's that feeling like i a cell again? But and no happens. Then you're a straight metric but that happens. And then while there's still the feeling of south, there will still be some experience.

So... Great. Lot easier to deal with, of course, now he no longer attached the belief himself. But it's still there. But then, this is your opportunity you have to work on to really get serious about abandoning creating. And when you succeeded in bringing about the permanent association of approving, not just the temporary sensation of creating with department with association. Then you'll be what's called a non return. All you have to do then is get over to that final feeling of being separate and you'll be a.

Make so easy. So that's your homework for dispute But in the, the end of the meantime may this week could be filled with lovely insights. Precious moments when you are able to let Go of Du that otherwise you would have been afflicted with. And likewise suppression moments when do you experience if only for a short period of time, experience of release from the craving that's creating too.

You can edit the title and description of this talk to help us organise the content and make it better searchable.

Edit talk