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Can a cessation be an object of the consciousness?


Q&A: Can a “lack” (of something) be an object of the consciousness?

Master Culadasa explains an absence of something cannot be an object of the consciousness, but a conceptualization of an absence can be. He presents a detailed view of emptiness. This question follows a question of skipping stages of the path.

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Culadasa: Yes. Yeah, you say, did I get the question was, did I say in Iran could be the object of consciousness or the lack of pagan? Okay. The lack of something and not be an object of consciousness. When we say Nirvana is association trading, what we really mean is. That when there is a cessation it's grading ban, Nirvana is reveal I would pay.

And I'm going to say that Iran is the object of consciousness. Not in the new, it's not an object of consciousness in the usual sense, but it is. In most of the systems, except for whether there are certain dry inside path. This is where a person's experience is actually described as as I lapsed in consciousness or brigade where most of the time that's a concert experience, but what becomes known for the mind is Nirvana or emptiness or all reality.

It is it is described in the care of Auden tradition has as being an object of consciousness. But it's more that there is an experience of consciousness and consciousness has no object. And Amir for Nirvana is realize that might be a better way, little likely or more conversation, but essentially what happens while we're talking about.

Ultimate reality emptiness and Rivana are the same thing. They are that rich is unborn unconditioned and unceasing. In other words, that which involves no projected, no mental projection though. Object of any pie. So the ultimate reality Therefore is not an object in and ed sense that normal consciousness would take as an object, but they still consciousness.

So that subsequently the person reflects on the spearing. And of course, they'll interpret it according to whatever the background is. Christian mystics interpreted as. The self, the soul having dissolve and to the union. God. So depending on what conceptual formations the mind has in it, after the fact, it will be appropriate based on.

The mine have as an object and consciousness a lab because they thought that it was what we always have. Anja a lack.

That is that yes, you can't take as an object and absence. What you can do is pay as an object the conceptualization or the formation corresponding to an absence in what is called the seventh Gianna. The form was Gianna, Isabel, the base of nothing that's and so the person's mind has become very agree still.

They have let go of sense of spatial location and experience infinite space. They have parents that have consciousness and then they have the experience of nothing. That's so no thing this, but this is exactly what happens in your mind. Have you ever been. Okay. You're looking for something and you thought it was in the drawer and you open the drawer and you're struck by it's not there, but that is a mental formation and nothing less that outsets.

So you're not knowing the abstinence directly, but really we're having to expand through a foreign nation.

Knowing that once the joint presents the rental section of bath mental formation, there's not the be itself, have the direct perception of emptiness, which is

what it is

it's not a mental formation correspondence to the options. Yeah, it is a direct understanding or I directly experienced about the reality of ultimate truth. That is reveal Ram. There is no, when there is no projection, including a projection, nothing bus, and there are the potential and the mind is not even projecting nothing that's but rather what is revealed is not because Champaign is defined as an agile.

But it is not a negative. It is. Emptiness is what, every time they've made out of antsiness it was the only thing verdicts. And there is something where it is. What do you mean that it's.

What do I mean that it's not, and I get too

because,

and negative as in something that doesn't exist, it's missing. It's not. Only exists as one only has meaning as one path of a duality something or the existence or nonexistence, emptiness, and Ivana, all these different terms that we'll use. But at the same thing, I was just riding cycling that is beyond either existence or nonexistence, those receive, okay, we have to bring this.

I don't know. There'll be a limit to how much, but I can say about this, but I can satisfy your intellectual, maybe weird. That's what I meant. Okay. All right. We have, on the one hand, we have things that we would say excess. In other words, faced. They are based are outside of the mind. And we infer that they have an existence outside of the box.

You infer that the back of my hand, a Susan, oh, you can't see it.

not see it. So that's what we mean by existence. Okay. And then there is another kind of video, which is that, which we are experiencing. Which have a projection of the lot. Okay. So the back of my hand is an existent that you infer the Palm of my hand is a mental projection that you regard as a real right.

And both of these have their opposite. The existence and you and Ferb backed up. My hand is not a real, so you can have real and they're not. The existence I could say that I turned my hand or I could say on this side of my hand I have a picture of, they do that and he would say I just saw your Palm of his hand, a man and a girl.

And there was no they're true of the Buddha there. So I don't believe there's an existence there. So we have, and. Our normal reality. We have these team categories of things that we either believe him or doubt existence and non-existence that are live in France and color reels. Where are the objects of our direct experience of emptiness is removal of both with both Antina.

This is not something that's known by and grants. So back to the hand, But there is no mind projection of a real. And so what is known what becomes known to the mind, but there comes real lives and what changes the way the mind works. And the picture is the experience that the reels are empty.

Emptiness is the ultimate trip

in terms of con relative reality. Emptiness is the fact that nothing actually exists the way appears to us, but all of our reels are false. And so from the point of relative reality, that's what Anthony miss me and point of view. Ultimately, reality emptiness is the ultimate reality. So it's smoke.

It's not a mitigation and it's not going to have all of them use in. Bill's not does not list either equation.

From the point of view of relative reality, it's a lot, but, and the nature of emptiness itself is not about lack. And I realized that you were probably have been, Kenny made a lot of plus on VIPA Dharma where it's always reaches this point. Emptiness is empty too, and therefore nothing exists, but and that remains true.

As long as you're talking from the point of view of appearances,

the emptiness themes from the point of view of relative reality is also empty. If there's an emptiness of things, pointedly relatively yet. Is itself another kind of formation.

And that's what I prefer all the mud I'm going to go. So I prefer the Shen Tom, which simply recognizes that says that once you had, once you understand the persona view, then you're left with the contradiction that, either there is nothing. Which makes no logical sense at all, or else a non-existence doesn't exist either, which makes no sense at all.

So the shantytown view says that emptiness is the ultimate reality and it's not, it has the matron. And has it's the one thing that does have sophomores. As the suck nature bring after this is I hope that helped you a little bit, but when you get to that level of philosophy and really his philosophy and his logic better, it's better to focus on the practical aspect and get there and resell.


Automated transcription

yes. Well, Yeah. You said did the the question was that I say in Run could be the object of consciousness or the lack of data. Okay. The lack of something and i the that object consciousness. When we say, Nirvana is a cessation of paging. What we really mean is that that when there is a cessation of creating, then nirvana is reveal. Okay. And and we say that Neuron nirvana is the object consciousness. Well, Not in the... It's not an object of consciousness in the usual sense but it is in most of these systems except for Well there are certain dry inside practices where a person's experience is actually described as a as i lapse and consciousness are forgetting.

Most of the time that's a concert experience, but what becomes known to the mine is Nirvana or empty the island. So It is it is described in the tradition as and it has being an object of consciousness. But it's more that there is an experience of consciousness and consciousness has no other object, and therefore, Nirvana is realized. That might be better way really little went to your more cumbersome. But essentially, what happens where we're talking about ultimately reality amp emptiness and nirvana are the same thing.

They are that which is un un unconditional and un. In other words, that which involves no projected no mental projection, no object they are being by. So the ultimate reality, therefore is not an object and any sense that normal consciousness would take it as an object. But there is still consciousness. So and subsequently the person reflects on experience. And of Course they'll interpret in according to what whatever background is. Know christian mystic interpreted as having self, the soul having this all and to union with god.

So depending on depending on what conceptual formations the mine has in it after the fact, it will be based on. You saying that the mine can't have object and consciousness lab the mind can't have As object a lack. Didn't know you fine? Well. That is that... In we... Yes, you can't take as an object and absence, what you can do is take as an object the conceptual commercialization or the formation corresponding an absence. Ian what is called the seventh John performed was China? Is it called the base of nothing that's and so the person's mind has become very great still.

They have let go sense of spatial location and experience infinite space, They have experience consciousness house. And then they have experience out nothingness that's so whole thing that's. But this is exactly what happens in your mind. Have you ever been Okay. You're you're you're looking for something and he thought it was in drawer. When you open the drawer and your struck why it's not there, but that is a mental formation. And nothing less that absence. So you're not knowing the directly, but really we we go ahead understand the formation or.

So that the joint david the perception of back mental formation and not at be itself. The direct perception of is What it is is it's not up a mental formation correspondence to the absence. It is a direct understanding or direct experience of the reality of ultimate truth that is revealed ram, there is note when there is no projection, including the projection and nothing but. And there mind does not even projecting nothing that's rather what is revealed is not. Because kim emptiness us is defined as an absence, but it is not a negative.

It is what every time they've made out. Acting was the holding thing that is. And there is something where is. Right? Do mean? It's. What do I mean that it's not entitled to? Because A negative has in something that doesn't exist. It's missing. It's not there. Only exist as one only has meaning as one path of a do. Something other existence or non exist. And Nevada All these different terms you'll will use for the same thing. Or just describing something. That is beyond either existence, or non exist those.

Receive... Okay. We have to bring this back. I don't I don't know there'll be a limit to how much but I can say about this, but I can satisfy your intellectual maybe weird. That's what I have. Okay? Alright. We have on the one hand, we have things that we would say excess. In other words states they they are based are outside of the mine, and we infer but they have an existence outside of the clock. So, you know, do you infer at the back of my hand is exist even though you can't see it. But poly hands says see that's see.

So that that's what we mean by existence next. Okay. And then, there is another kind of video which is that which we are experiencing which is the projection of the lot. Okay? So the back of my hand is an existence that you inferred. The palm my hand is a mental projection that you regard as they real. Right? And both of these out their opposite. You know, the the existence that you infer, the back of my hand is not a real. So you talk real and the not. And the existence. You know, I could say that I'll turn my hand.

I could say on this side of my hand, I have a a picture of the buddha. And he would say, well, I just saw a palm of his hand a minute ago, there was no picture true alluded there. So I don't believe there's a an there. So we have in our normal reality, we have these two categories of things that we either believe them or gout. Existence and non existence that are live incorrect and the reels that are the objects of our direct experience in home. Emptiness is removal approach about Is not something that's known by inference.

So the back of the hand not. But there is no mind projection of real. And so what is known what becomes known to the mind but comes to realize and what changes the way the mind works in the future is the experience that the reels are empty. Empty emptiness is the ultimate trip. In terms of relative reality emptiness is the fact that nothing actually exists the way it appears to us, but all of our reels are false. And so for point of relative reality that's what anthony me. I'm pointing you open reality.

Happiness emptiness is the ultimate reality. So it's it's it's not a mitigation. And it's not one half of them deals and deals not and or just does not list either equation. Not. From the point of view relative reality, it's lack. But And the nature of amp itself is not. And I realized that you probably have been paying in a lot of, which always reaches which point of amp dictator and therefore nothing exists. But and that remains true as long as you're talking from the point of new appearances.

The acting has out of things from upon here relative reality is also empty. It is anti reality is itself another kind of formation. And that's why I prefer all of my damages is I'd prefer the Xi, my. Which simply recognizes his that. Says that once you hand... Once you understand the your view, then you're left with the contradiction that well. Either there is nothing, which makes no sense at all. Or else non doesn't exist either, which is about but makes it's not sense at all. So The Cent view says that empty has is to be open with the and it's it's not that it has the nature it has it's the one thing that does have stop nature.

As a sub nature when after. And this is that i I hope I hope that helps to you little bit. But when you get to that level of philosophy, it really is philosophy logic. Better better to better to focus on the more practical aspect have.

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