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Stronghold 17 July 2011


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So anybody have any questions or do you think out there? Mike. Right. Expect to bring up? I'm curious about going for refuge Yep. I mean, I guess, I understand what the for is. Like it seems like every agreed just place I've been to They're always going for refuge. And I don't really understand why they do it for what what the kind is distributor. And the idea behind it. K. You you a large part of That's good to solve. Question Question was about that's reading Why news but she goes to always. But they have they have a meeting and significance and you can you can do the as completely empty rich.

Or you can do it as a reminder if you keep in mind with significant needs. And so... He said you know what the message means what does? I think if it is kind a safe place. Yeah. Like I grandma's house it's. And at a safe place it's to say, say from something. Right Yeah. Mean you can take refuge from the rain hundred of. Right. So that's you're seeking i'm sort to... I it it's protection so so... So you him to buddha done that long Repeat it three times. The the actual meeting is that they're not taking thresholds and go to it.

It's not white worship take or or anything like that. And it's not the the individual are blue. Two a half lady year ago. Nonsense since. You're taking away from. You're taking. Rush and vehicle way bank that and like medical good. Because the buddha was one and human being recycled right. And two his the weakening was result of his efforts it wasn't dependent upon some external other entirely. Verizon efforts, and it was something that was that he was inherently capable. Didn't anything anything outside about her problems But you're visa for taking rash.

That's. We're taking twelve. The different difficulties, the answer came white probably. What i perhaps sync to be mine was remaining was bigger sense. Still with Explained suffering and saving and justice, it was with sites. And and existence that can only refer and certainly to further siren. Agent of death. So that's where saving that from changing and the weight and light and I do that. Because the buddha has result but was kind. They can't permanently free from every kind sat and his life. Kind and compassion, rather spring over forty five years.

So like you're taking? From a world of suffering. Can't root. It gives can't and light in the fact that. You are he with day. Did not require intervention an a other forward. And therefore, this is something that's successful will to you well. I of it that way. But it's very... Everything has very powerful. I really. Because I really at the original certain binder. So the first time, usually, with the three investigations, the first refers to the the down insomnia and historic wisconsin the second gonna rebooted the don song and sensitive it future should and the third two down something.

I see okay. Right. What that means, Or as I say, like, yeah. The buddha. Because you're really taking reference envy of like might probably that historical time. Italian Da, which is the audio teachings that he presented that have been passed down for in the twenty five hundred year. And you're taking refuge again the sun. The song get him in the sense how his followers that are all received rate hand as a result of problem with this guy is not her teaching. And and essence since all of the historical on with the that's all of it.

Thousands and thousands of came both with balance sheet awakening by following the stuff. And that's the way they done on. Space. Get you open. Can you turn you the future? And they're all you don't chase your rate now. You're taking groceries know. You said if the meeting red mcdonald means truth, it means teaching it has been a variety shades of made. But talking about names. No. I her not. So you're taking fresh into your own future late night their own feature. Knowledge and understanding you it old that true.

That's the. And is any records can sandra they can't me and i guess intent to become park. Better your time, things take can't you're all put in nature. Is that's what's guy you to where you are now? That's right guy direct you. All along this back if. New observations and a while, there won't be make. Taking issues at my present, which is your own practice of not study identification. Fact reflection. All the practices need. And finally here tell. The song present which is all of those people. Fellow travelers on teachers, so on so forth.

Through they help me support. That's the real pain. And that's... you know, issue you can't you can right after through that. And you know, this saying yourself, what a waste of time to recite phrases? So I'm gonna put myself in situations. Where else in the mind you're saying. And i just open my guess. Okay remember what they need. You as a as reminder here that maria enforcement. Yes. I have the question about transformed in the twelfth volt chain you for and then consciousness and then form again, and you instead that kind of like holding back.

Yeah. So does that just mean that I perceive something I that become conscious of it on sub level, then my consciousness can't manufacture another mental form of of that. That can be just like, we inserted it back into it over and over again kind of like over there. Is that what it means? I'm holding that. So I didn't quite i kinda sure. I'm pretty hungry like you're saying. But it's sounds like straight. One of the senses of that. Actually it's not just one case not who's name one. That's right as well as in.

Yep or for those? For those of you that i know we're trying there too. Let's called the links verification. And since three parts must to fighting being the middle part. And the first of that is is consciousness. Second is val maintenance four nineteen one four last. And so the way that goes is that when when with consciousness as cause, there is name before. And in the even the most common description these, the next thing is to say would made more has pause. They the same spaces. But when build talk this and the citrix instead he's actually in reference to is realization of this trying on lot that said.

I realized that Consciousness as a cause raised made important and remain important service consciousness and at least two hold back on no south. That prescribed the subsequent. Sir. And this stands out has a very important thing to be aware. It has many layers of understanding but even bring to it. Because In other places he divides that defines name and form as may provide aggregates which are form is one five nearly four are not i like this is viewing perception. And consciousness. So see built in...

And as soon as you're say with consciousness as it cause horizon. Prior may part by its definition by the Google. So name informed if I aggregate me. Is that is what an individual individual is this body in this mind. That's by aggregate why that being consciousness. We we're here speaking how that I I live in it is. Yeah so with there maintenance for, there is consciousness and we consciousness. And we're the. We we're conscious of vladimir process our thoughts other than that in context. And we conscious of material things or least process the sensations as we experienced by which we infer the existence side by.

So and and there there are... As with something at least sense on the researchers you can keep going deeper and deeper and deeper. So They say, I'm not sure I totally called what what you saying what's happened ways of each Yeah. That. Shy has anything about time. I like to respond to people's, questions and comments guys. Hi larry. Pay a teacher from years so if like he said, talks. They can't to me unless you pay a lot two Bet. Thank you wait. The question, but it has to do the social activism?

Yes. I think I've bring a social activist since I just oh, my spiritual i two many of passing of the retreat with Sensei was buddhist. This is a ten day sign two what's to best i'm hear. I'm sorry Was on a piece presentation all time very tired. Oh, he said to my question about social activism, or you shouldn't be doing that. That's not a good way to find your true path. And I said, but what about the lu... I've walk with getting peace merchants. Is their quiet isn't there? Prayer that sustain our ability to walk all it.

Oh, he didn't know about that. So two days later he said I looked them up. Maybe there's something too. Go by think about it. But I'm wondering, eventually, I don't think he actually went on peace box. But he found a way to reconcile my confusion. And he said, oh, that's not the way. I would be very pleased if you could speak to this social activism as part of. Yes. I that question for. Yes. You you would like me to speak about social activism. As a part have a buddhist chat Okay. That's more generally.

It's your particle how. P spiritual. And I I'd like to do that. Had I'd like to be in by am or much of buddhism and historically has not been particularly social active they're always they have them lose social active. But buddhism is itself throughout his history has has demonstrated very little social consciousness. And it has stopped him not been very good about valentine's time being socially engaged. Not that there hasn't always been something element of that. I I think in every form of this, but it has been spend minimal.

And just as you encountered, there is a very strong tendency to actually teach against that Because when you examine the various stop trends and sort of the buddhist ortho orthodox it's very much about pronunciation of this world. It's very much about Escaping from they the problems medicinal and suffering the work. And so... And a lot of emphasis was good. No. I was starting diligently four home the awakening. No it's actually the it is... The the buddha is have mission figures followers at time notes.

Village. And it's very easy for human beings to take things like that. And out of them comes to not necessarily the way it be behaving the that the person i following and. The up. Many of the drives and Sutra are gotten in form metaphor allegory can't that are. But hey mentioned yourself? Following different life in that far the temperature and punch him. And Just this aside so know throughout there there many times when he with key recounts, conversations between themselves i thought. And so this...

This is how he presented now and he says herself while like I have these kinds of thoughts and I struggled over i can bore us to what with the right environment. He couches the kind of show the debate making himself I. So I said my i can't hear me. Adam or I said, now that you're totally i there's no reason for you to say in this sort of might as well to pardon. And... And they have a conversation about this short conversation at the end of which said that he was gonna stay in the world and teach until his followers teachers between his and impossible blame hours everyone, understood his doctor.

Able to be realizing this structure be able to teach his doctor charges are able to review the false arguments of those intact. In start. That's say state or the world the forty five gets number. Which is Alright. That in itself was important. The responsibility bills. And so I don't think like he went him on his deathbed. He should straight diligently a on way and there was a sub to san to all the rest of the. But unfortunately, that got. Into that. Have there'll get a reaction against stop. Sound.

About six... Maybe started about five sky series later and really called may six seven centuries later. Have they they. Sadly i it's selfish decision labeling for your i say. Instead you should be seeking and like i the folks sake that all me. So they came the idea early shocked the va that right thing to have made this commitment to strive away any not for say that feel safe for all day. And I hit that reflected a huge amount of wish of that aggression probably Self centric that's that that good is certainly have changed towards.

But interestingly the even that essentially became the same thing. You have all these both scientists that were seeking and life safe of all beings, but that actually really no time to spam doing anything... You ain't service the fairly with people, how can else making sorry social responsibility. And it's a matter fact hang. It didn't take very long at all before were. He's behind time was hit my i of my series. And all the late people were being told, but you don't have a chance to be kind of white and better deep support honest areas, make lots of foundations.

Accurate. So maybe you'll be to reborn some it So know I don't attribute this to is no I should this page. And how amongst buddhist has amongst all nice items people before were. There is. The of the atrial where event did coming through. And they're all pretty severe tabs all sense of associated with the responsibility who tried to bring about reforms of various kinds. As fact, I just go back to the the. He was he was a... He was a total wreck in his times he was a total radical, and it's amazing that he got away to things she get.

It it criticized the cast system. A whole society was based on constantly He he criticized the the cast authorities especially a he attacked slavery. There's so many different things that he addressed because like somehow, knows was how somehow, he was he was the confidant of Kings. And so we was able to say these things. Draft the social structure time down his hip. The social stuff. He stationed something have dramatically different the whole foundation to the talked time based on. It was serious right.

And throughout buddhist history, there are there other people have done things like that. This is. It would be lovely or same day or some will be motivated just to go through the history and right what about socially active moves. There isn't the though in this country or social actively answering recognition ben there is a place for there's a place for taking responsibility for the society and the culture that player and trying to trying to make changes. Exercising some responsibility that very hard.

And I think that's That's a very good thing. A area also. And I think it should be encouraged. And I would hope that as as buddhism takes on whatever unique form it's going to take and in the rest. Right america but that is a major part of them. That's what I see catherine i right now. Here's me. Hey. It's not just an error values use where it merrick. Who doesn't that's this country so david noisy and that. So health american groups british really at great least North American buddhism that perhaps even been western because beginning to emerge several different funds.

And taking off some of their own characters. I if social responsibility gives... And the indications are the best going to be part of it. It does create what might be perceived by Sound? As problems. But I think what it creates with huge opportunities for understanding because, you know, at the core of at the core of the boo teaching is that reality is not the way appears for me. That we... Each bill at the of pay and then as we interact with each other, we pay consensual reality. But we would and that ultimate reality, something of that we do right.

And There's different threads with the teaching the any individual responsibility. For themselves. And indeed, that's all of champion that you can't take responsibility for other t? Yay all sense. You can you can do something for some. But whether they... Whether they take what you do use wisely or use your con in this spectrum noise totally i control or is that been jackson we control. But I think that What socially active it is about is it it gets it gives people who trying to practice the factor infections.

Have opportunity to to do that on a larger scale than just yesterday the that personally what. That's the question. Living as I did. And being a part of this culture a society as i what kind of harm is that range i essential think? That guy out. That's the first preset. And if you take... If you take that to heart, beyond just simply way whether you step answer on. It almost requires that you you to think about the social responsibility. We at the very least you got to take the trouble to go and have both, things like that.

But perhaps the fees are whole lot board than that. Perhaps it may as things say about the choices you made. Yeah. How you travel or the kind of vehicle vehicle you bring some the impact of those things? How you go? How you can keep? So just... As the do trying to hit the first pre, if you take a little bit broader view that most committees have tried to do the past. You have the entered the doorway social response. And I actually think that that will be very strengthening to practice reimbursement.

Now there's also going to be A lot of opportunities is for people to develop skill names. Because very often social changes brought out through probably outsourced truth violent needs. And you ask the question? As as do this. If you're our buddhist money heather and best on just. Really sorry. What what do you do? And where he did job. So the one thinks, there's a lot of opportunities to practice. The one thing I think about, it doesn't provide formulas us or anything. It provides formulas for you to try to work things out for yourself.

So would you have that in replace absolute? You have that and limitations in general? And you and as do if you if if she didn't take your gaze arrangement table. They're gonna have unlimited opportunities to worked on the and by decision. The other thing is with our light decisions. This is a subtle fee with them something that I think we very a very important. One of the ways that is expressed, you know, there's the the it's prohibited so take here in that life. That was i appreciate that. We would never do that.

Right. And everybody decided and we do that. But there is there's something that called jot tales, what they are stories of hosted previous things. And many of these actually pre the very do that anywhere afterwards, but they are like, they're like a question of treatments. Needs should be charged. Yes ma'am city yellow period point. At the end of one but i was through previous lifetime was sixth situation third. I i'm tried had a chair i for stories. But i remember very correctly, he is on our above this take over by pirate going to kill the on the board.

He's in the unique position at he's the one person who could say he actually does do it. Although it's explained that it's not a simple case actually can have There's a word for morality was based on the greatest good for the largest number having joking the time That's not the words that I checked but anyway. It's relatively they all. And in order to show that this was not a case of matter of. Killing the pirate it because lives five hundred people were worth more than the life of block payment.

It killed the fire to take by himself the advance Car results from killing because i otherwise, the sport But you know, we've always sorry to have the thing, they have different nuances to the I most obvious thing is Wow. So the buddha in the previous lifetime wasn't very excitement actually kills her back. So it's saying that that There are no simple. Every every situation has to be siren about the basically itself. Yes. I think the buddha himself would a very strong social media. Basically. Yeah.

Yeah in that story, which I about. And having to do a social acquisition and those lines of actions. What ruled does intentional temp play in certainly it seemed to be an issue in that story that meets there. Yes. Yeah. It certainly is. What the Buddha taught was that that tab deep catching is really the notion important. And your But as soon as we take that, i you have to look at it. We realize that. We why to ourselves to a lot our intentions our. So it's very important that I we that we learn to the audits.

As a matter of fact, the There reason something else that might find interesting. One of the not ten Asp broad speech which includes diabetes false speech. Yeah. We at the teachings of the photo. And to certain people, he said things. Which... And other than other the teachings are obviously not true. And so you look at that said, He one of his people credentials so not engaging in false speech, he was saying things were went true. So one then... What end gives what I it? Even without that example we can answer impression.

What then is the true purpose of not Engaging and space. And what is interpretation? I got sure I can't account this. Yeah. I can't across you i just strike this meeting they very like. Just the purpose of practice keeping that preset present not engaging and falls speech is so that you can learn to be honest with yourself? Because it's very difficult to be honest yourself and to know your own motivations and your all tensions. Typically the agree you allow yourself to one have people or any reason at all.

You or takes you more pretty predisposed to deceive yourself. And so anyway, ten what's your part is your intentions what's important is to know your intentions. Is lot of one but things that we do and intentional wise behind every accident of the time. But most of the time, we're not aware intention. The intention maybe be one was smart later wanna know and it tells you to keep the same lane. Or the intention at this moment? Gonna the result of a subconscious interaction. I not different attention so you on.

What but the point is you don't know what his attention is behind your actually phone. So to to really make use of the knowledge that their intention is really the most important thing about everything you do say? Or. First of all, is you have to be able to be aware of what your intention is. And then you have to come to know yourself well and enough so that you can have some degree of certainty that attention you think you old is really less guiding we behavior. Because all... Another that that saying revenue hell is paved or expensive.

Bye. You the sense but can think you're doing something out great cash. But your real attention is something but it's not. But at all. And it's the unconscious driver. But, it not only tells you do this thing. It tells you rationalize it by saying this is why it doing sounds a lot very different reason. Sorry. And your intention is important? And of of course? Wrote the hell us people good intentions because very often. Our are good. Getting just destroy. I think that's probably wouldn't basic meaning of that when straighten.

So No matter what your intentions are, that going to be a reflection of the agree of wisdom or lack of that you that lies behind that. But heard like, figuring understanding their ignorance that he in. So how there there is this other factor too. Now out the card consequences, all of your intention. If if indeed your attention arises from wholesome cultivation. It's it's not can't by selfish greed, hatred, And we the intention is a positive one for the good benefit others. Any action is performed out of that good intention will have a kind result.

And they answered david hundred percent who is more likely to act out risk camp attention in the future. And it'll have all sorts other applications see price be behavior. But it doesn't guarantee actually the refundable result pension was wise, it can still be. Say. So can have a very different effect. Typo. So that's not something that you can't know about it advance about an advance. It that Wisdom is partly observing the effects of our actions. No matter what our intention is, if we observe the effects in the world of our actions, and then bring that back to inform our intentions so that's part of developing.

That least. That's absolutely right. That is how this. That's what the whole practice would find about. Mindfulness is pay attention being aware to not just what you're doing or you're doing. But to the concert or something. Michael this is something turn for a few minutes. Sure. This doesn't work if you did that. Ask the space or on. And it does, you evaluate like the way you put it in four and percent ten. What it does is it provides but necessary information for about picking consequences consider here actually.

Two that much larger part of yourself, but isn't where your consciously aware. And we that the information is do the utilized. To to january worldwide generate with some finish behaviors future. Yeah to pay attention to the consequences not just of your actions. But have you've been invited therapy went around it. Yeah. And One of the buddha is most famous citrus is a little line that he over and over again of the night twenty hundreds so is that it it's a about practicing finances it's just about sure anything.

Somebody he's like you... What he says is is observe nursing herself. I'm sorry this and others. I'm sorry there's a both yourself. So the of mindfulness for definitely involved consequences activities. Oh. Okay Maybe just the my car. Going back to Mary best question of. I I mean, I understand that there's a place for it seems to be a place for social active but i I know one of the historical complaints about or is is a or some people complain it is about passing business about how you can't you know and even the the entire story has some like, a meta physical caveat.

Right? Like, he killed the guy for his comment, future lives, she answer more. Here. I guess, just to return it that my question is... Should you split us as oppressive she? Take a back. Got. That that is the question. It's there's not it's not a question for me or any other one person answering or. I answer question for myself moment. And of course, I can pay we don't charge to but I think make we have best retention. So yeah there there's there's no simple answer that. That's really i just the best I.

Is that if you're looking for a simple notice do this. Having love to how about what have i. Was quite let's do this a astute University the West that came up with good one. Alright license. Okay. So you're Germany there in world war two. Did take simple gonna make But mostly the specialists they're going to be making choices. Because of somebody else is brutal, you're not gonna really learn anything problem but recognize choice substantial card least don't to something out. You I think this was all about.

This is all about. I do and, you know, I we have a wonderful model in the offering. Yes or these kinds of questions. I'd say he would be if you... He would be the person I would recommend recognize the game but he he's just trying to take the decision. But they definitely look his wife and business experience of his choices. Because he's been very clear when protests and lost of riots people taken up arms she asked the chinese leave. He's he's been really clear. And I think he's He's over and over had full treatment.

But it's right? Right. These don't produce the kind results that you can't like. And the more i intention that. Unfortunately, I say, well just because try so algorithm. But you can't go from so we can get other situations and let's see when when people engage in mass violence. In order to be produced produced what change. It almost always the result is very difficult nasty situation that because you you know a lot of violence angry ideological unreasonable people into through position, of power decision that by itself was argument.

So I think it's really true that not my only the things. I appreciate guy was got. Incredible change three. Ten. And actually, there's a lot to learned for nelson than dollar too. He was part with movement the engaged environment. But, during not in prison, turn against kind of bonds. Types of needs for bringing us chains. So so there's a lot of volumes out there that that we can't bring them. And to the degree find yourself and be maybe those kinds of decisions. I all need state advantage of damage.

What people experience so history. By license chance, personally, here's that. While it's is always going to be good forties choice. There's always. And the action five would not to agree that it's scans hatred. Ill will is it's it's taken. It's not going to. It's probably mark on you the very. But I think that motivation behind is going to actually take away from the accuracy of what is in that So probably man whatever to do have one.

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