Stronghold 19 June 2011
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didn't might have any any tickets day would like for us to talk about this right? I have a kind of a general question. You know there are those forty retreat up there in the chair collars and now that buyers are Well, the... I don't know where the fires are, but I know they're close. So what would they have to do if they need to leave to save their lives. What would they do? Where would they go? I think nineteen knows. He was just up there couple days ago. They would get evacuated to get evacuation notice which certainly likely part wall.
Is really the pivotal day. And then and they would not get their door and they have sheets. It's exactly what they need to do. And then they would be blind to put in the van and move to Bowie where they've established houses mh for them until the virus paths. And then in theory, they would return them. But it doesn't seem like that's gonna happen but today's is really the final. How do you imagine the experience personal subjective experience of physical debt? I I imagine yeah. Yeah. Pending perspective of inside such.
Well... Experience yeah. Oh okay physical. The physical. Physical that. Yeah. Well, the whole experience of actual debt. Well Yes. The question is though deaths we're really clearly temporarily. You know, I think. Problem. Primary reports that near deck experience and just kind of set. Yeah. It can be very prolonged or it could be fifty very about. It's instantaneous. Your depth experiences, but of course because people are able to come back at least the majority of what they're called experience those.
They're following a period of time where the person really isn't dead at all well they probably may stop me things like that. But they are still cog and conscious. So that's really a period for yeah. And it's very interesting to see what these people report on the certain consist where some people have said, they probably relax what happens as different parts with the brain began of shut down due to lack of oxygen and and things like that. But, what's very interesting is that very common that it produces a a shift in the Person's perspective and patented towards light in general back that.
Which is not something that can be it could be the result of some price who they bring temporarily shutting down to create an experience, but first. It's not the result that. No interesting this another kind of near death experience. That produces the second effect but not the first one this is where somebody totally believes that they're going to die. Right There's actually no impairment physiological at all. For example, first thing. Falls off the cliff, thinks they're going to pick the bottom and be smashed.
But instead they land on bush fifteen feet below. And in the connotation of the fall they'll actually undergo a transformation. Right. But that's very interesting. As far as what a person experiences is. Beyond those those points where the mind sees this. I would expect that it it is probably very much like, what happens when the entered deep anesthesia or similar to what happens when you call asleep behind me. I think in a sense, we all died many many times. In terms of what the experience is, the mine see function in a particular way that we identify said this.
It just turns on. did have mind when asked the question? Yes. From perspective that our mind creates these categories of me you and all this things loyalty but that fundamentally what we truly are is the absolute, if that's the case. It's kind of I guess the question. What happens why the mind stops. What persists, it's kind of a question of, you know, feeling out what it means to being the absolute yet have this subjective experience. Yeah. You kinda see what I mean? Yes. I see. So here you're asking.
Yeah. What remains factor after the switch is what turns on. Yeah. And kind of how is that experience without a mind mh. So that that's true in awakening experience as well as. It's great. I think you know how... Can I... Yeah. Well this In the question itself, how do you answer this question not for point of view of the line cell? And and that that really is the problem. The buddha said what happens after that is One of again honorable back. Waste time think about. And some of the later periods.
Some of the later makes the point that what remains. Is not different than what the what what the really was before. The only thing that disappears is the illusion of the separate consciousness in a separate mine. And that's very interesting way think about it. So instead of thinking how about. What happens when Something think that seems real tangible this mind this conceptual mine and healing of being itself. So what happens when that is lost, it's Why behind the illusion of that that doesn't change it can't change?
The, you know, the bad news is that there's nothing self and the mine. This absolutely not changing this the five. Reassurance that somehow this might to this self persists. And and that is that's what stu us about down. And it's very interesting if you would ask yourself. Why do we fear dad? They're sort of absurd conclusion. But I came to, and I think that that if you really examine everybody else well because I really miss me when aren't going. And the best way to counter that is to is this much realization as you can achieve that that have time a cell in sense of being they a single continuous empathy.
Doesn't really exist anyway, and this is this is this is not how buddha answered the question and he's asked question. He said, it's a waste the time to think about, but in other context, he said that essentially the self is coming into existence. Every moment and disappearing again and that the whole illusion of a continuous stuff. Is false anyway. So to the degree that you can realize that that In sense you're always losing yourself that have a new self emerges, but it's not the same. That's the old one.
I I think this can This can help to resolve. The emotional reactions that we said to happen we say possibly when you get to. Okay. Even I'm I get the sense that it's not the same, but there is some continuity. Right? Of of the new cells of the transformations. Or is that useful to... I mean, it's not that I I want that to be so so much, but it just seems what I observed that if there does seem to be elements of continuity. Well, certainly as a continuity that we sell sense. When you woke up this morning?
And here is that all baggage left behind on the self deceased texas last night, including the mental values the memories and reviews and still working. So there is there is continuity, that in the course of this life. It's a causal continuity. It's not an entity that continues. But but rather the annuity, newly arise entity is causal hack to. So are you asking is there something like some kind of similar continuity beyond deal? I hadn't that question having audio yet. But I would be interested. I I would think that just on the surface, I would think that would would be positive.
Well, I'll just answer from the point of view what the buddha said see. First of all, when you are looking for that singular apartment and separate answer. His invitation was to look at five. He said that there is nothing more to this individual there's nothing more to the entity in which you would seek this kind of cell. Than these five aggregate and kinda to... And first of all convince yourself and indeed that truth. There is no There's nothing that doesn't belong in one of those category. And the next thing is to locate most categories discovery if there is anything there that is singular and continuous.
And you find that there is not. Now there is a very famous sutra about a sucky. And satya was trying to answer the question. What what is it then that continues when we got it. And he examined the five. And he came to conclusion that well it's consciousness And this is actually a very reasonable conclusion and i many people in many different cultures have all come to the same conclusion. They examine themselves the body or well, yeah. It's constantly changing all these different aspects of the line.
And you you can examine you can take the time and take the effort to intros every aspect of your psych. And you'll see that everything is constantly change it. And the the continuity is no more than a causal one no different than the cause continuity that we see in the physical world and that is not sufficient so to get advice to anything remotely later resembling if they continue to stop. But when you look at consciousness, there are some things about conscious that make it different than all the other things that we trying to make look at like.
Consciousness abstract from its objects. Seems to be always the same. And even consciousness as we feel that we perceive it and other things seems to be the same. So consciousness does appear to some to be something that Not changing. Just. Maybe it's universal, they maybe be consciousness spills all the other descriptions that are provided them. And spiritual literature. So the conclusion that sa came to was you know, he wasn't just something dumbass peasant with. And conclusion he came to this one that's been arrived up many many times.
But when it was reported to the buddha that he had not only come to this conclusion but you telling other people that consciousness is what persists i debt. Scolded in him very seriously, in space they you full. When did you ever hear me saved that? Where did you pick that notion? Alright. So when you look the aggregate, at least... I mean, you might need to satisfy your yourself and there's a limit to how much? Go into a little discussion like that. At least what the buddhist have You said, there's nothing to you, but five gets when you look at these five areas.
You're not going to find a permanent plane. So and that includes consciousness. On another occasion though somebody asked him more directly, What is it there? That is reborn Like his answer is the results under your current. That's what is point. Not you. There's been a detail. You know, in the time of between for people to try to deposit some kind of carrier for the car, which of course as soon as you deposit it some kind of carrier for the car. I self effective. You know, and it's back to what happened with some again.
And then what's happened? So I think there it is really bigger than what the buddha was referring to. Was not some kind of carrier of the car i'm not some kind of entity that created the car that is subsequently going to receive it it was subsequently going to experience the fruit. He met something much more straightforward than that to do like what what continues is the result. What has been touched. You know, when you throw a rock, it strikes the target it doesn't strike your hand. It's a a result of this pre produced space independent of the call.
In the sense that we would like to attach it that myself to Karma and the preaching karma, but. So what can that be taken to me? So we have have really interesting. We have a couple of really interesting things that you could meditate on the and and they hey on and two cents flooding so you can meditate on. Analytical steady think about the other is that you may just technically sit down and explore your experience, but find no my answer some includes the answer. At least these two things are if consciousness is not the cell.
What is consciousness x? How don't give you a clue that the word just usually translated consciousness is know. Other with the v editor in the front. And the Female advice is an important way. And Did refers to a duality of consciousness and an object. But if you're in movement, but Jana is the abstract cog. Knowing. And him the buddhist literature. There's another word hot yeah who wisdom. That is used in reference to young. So that's something we're fix for when you exported that, though, be cautioned that the buddha already told us, there's no self in that.
Whether find don't start thinking the. Going true so. Alright so. The other thing is the question Karma and the fridge of Car. So it... The only thing is born is the results of the previous actions. And also keep in mind that the british right when I say, Ka I mean, intentions. So when he's not any our car, he's talking about something it's internal to the line, not things happening. I don't know. That was the can't the doctor which he nick it. So he said what's born is is the French Carp. So the whole idea but the entity that generates the intention is the same one as the entity that experienced the freeze has already been discounted by the building.
And even in this why the intentions that you generate today result in your mind working in a particular way and certain, medical formations, which determine the kind of entity that will appear tomorrow in the same form and they do you and others will observe the continuity between those. But those are not the same person, but what they have in common is that the person of tomorrow bears the influence. Mental actions of the person of day. So the imprint of those actions are what have persistent not person.
And so this is essentially what he's saying about what happens after bernie. I I after to. So yes there is no secret so. And There is a reality of separate objects the way it appears to us. Then what we're told that is, there is freshness, but is hinting emptiness There is. Ultimate reality, which does not have nature corresponding team or things that are annoying. Paycheck. But that ultimate reality manifests manifest has the relatively all the poe experience, which involves people caitlin may green reborn or session things need.
And as you don't need to claim to the idea some kind of self exist individual. That's the carrier receipt. Receiver of the time and so forth the paper and receiver is long as you don't need to vehicles. Then cease they my consultant. Complicated and difficult. You have no problem what is fact that what? A person does in the material world. Will remain after they die and the people then are born later will deal with the consequences of that Person's right. So in the material world, the truth. I'm.
Alright. In in terms of the relative reality and new individuals kind of experience instance those new individuals can hear it. Fruits previous individuals actually obviously yes and straightforward. If the illusion that your mind is a separate entity is the other aspect of self addition to singular and permanent for lighting is the separate is that too is negated. No who rates. The freaks are here actions. It's not different than you. This is actually... This this is directly relevant to the whole idea and about.
The Produce site. Because The point has been made by and philosopher that the whole voting side ideal is a pointless was endeavor if every person only inherit it's own hard butt. See what I'm gave there. So All the good things you Might do in the world or if if if Karma always just it always goes to the same entity. And really what you can ever do in turns of bringing all things all sentient banks from late money. But if there really is no different, every person that becomes lightning enlighten to hold.
I response he became in writing everybody was being be invited with because you would see That is true. Because i like me buddha safe things as they really are. And It is not the way things really are that. This person is not in enlightened now that they will change and they come right have another time. That's not true. That's not what happened. Am light what will happen is that the mind aspect of this entity will cease to hold to Buddha sees on the one hand, things because they really are, which means that.
The apparent diversity of individuals are already writing. But the Buddha also sees. Things as they appear. So the Buddha also sees that these entities, that are only appearances of the characters that are suffering so buddha experiences is compassionate for that suffering. At the same time as understanding that the recycling itself is an illusion. So the buddha. Still positioning combined still possessing the kinds of consciousness still able to perceive the relative reality of appearances that other people per s.
Abu buddha is able to we're in the world and do the best that they can to leave these individuals away from the delusion that is responsible for their experience for site agreement. It it's a it's a little bit, I guess. That's very clear still that. The buddha goes into the pizza pizza store and says to the guy on the other side of the counter, make me one with everything. I guys says you already are. That'll be nice. Was good i gives no money. And repeat... Actually, it was a hot guide but gives the money.
I mean is ten dollars this word by change. Change starts with him. Is first. It been blowing for months? That's what I have do. It's been very. But yeah It's kind of a critical or today for husband. Maybe i'll palm our mind sufficiently she it'll have a spill over the fact i'm the went down to work. A practice question. Have you you're practicing for practicing I'm focusing attention on the breath. I do feel about labeling the subtle distractions that come back kind of incorporating kind style labeling while you're really working on tension.
It's just maybe not as consistently labeling, but as a if it's but well labeling yes it's a biggest time technique me you know, a to actually generate label engages the different part of your blind. And it has sort of and empowering the back are dealing with the distraction and be just who just aware of it. That doesn't afford quite as much protection as being vulnerable to as the action of labeling does. And this may be because you actually had to dis your consciousness from the distraction in order to produce the label.
You also your attention meditation object? Yes. You too. Medication object. But what you are doing a way like process is intentional. So it does have a positive benefit that that you are intentionally engaging a medication object and then when distraction comes you are intentionally labeling going. Rather than being unintentionally gotten way. So and it if that's assume so it's helpful, but it's not something to rely upon and do consistently. And behind i The labeling has to be done very, very consistently because what you're doing is training your mind to flip flop.
Back and forth back and forth back forth between these two modes. And So so becomes really important basic cost. Oh one thing I was taught about that labeling is that for example, the wind is blowing. Right? And so so what happens is hearing instead of saying I'm hearing the wind blow. I don't identify the object only what's going on. Turn in terms of what... Sensations or are thinking and not the thought. You know, feeling and not the object and It's very strange to me at first, It was like, here a dog park and how do you not think of dog?
How do you just think of hearing? Very very And and and and a question, you can't i think was supposed to you'll just frustrate straight yourself. Right. Can you if you keep loading the hearing that after while that becomes a occurred on that reaction. And that is... That's why i called intros where. Mh like extra awareness is being aware that a dog is partly. Intros, awareness us. Yeah it is being aware. That I'm hearing the working and as it becomes more refined, it can come to the point. I just couldn't hearing it.
It's not even eye. Serious Is officer right. And the hear sister hearing. Right. This that's one i think that I find... It's the way my mind works too. Right. When I look at things I was see similarities, But what I find was always the meditation technique is they were sort different But when you examine it more closely, they are so similar. It's... I there aren't very real difference there's been so much. You stand out. And I think they allow you to appreciate the difference support. Something what you were just saying about even if you shift away from the object to the meditation, I guess, it's it sounded like what you're indicating is the key part of the meditation is really staying with the intention and kind of intentionally being able to direct your attention wherever it goes.
Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering if you could say more about that. The benefit of really becoming stable at a single object? Compared to the benefit of really becoming stable with the attention wherever the attention right. That's right. The if the Idea already indispensable you said key who knows what key names. Sure but the indispensable part is intention. Because. Can keep figure attention focused on one thing. Isn't really a goal. It's the beast that achieve that goal. And the goal is that is that your attention?
And and also ultimately your awareness, but in particular your intention had your mind training so your detention responds to intention rather than a lot of things all of these other a different price of your mind will try to pull them in in their direction. Back this dispatch button. Because at... Yes, we do how do you train your blind to respond to attention, Was really easy you intend to pay attention to one thing like your grip. And then whenever it goes somewhere else. You bring it back. But when you gets to the point where you mind stays on your ground.
Well that's great. Right. So what good is that? It's the next step that now the mind that is malleable and wheeled the mind that goes where wherever new direct stays there as long as you need to investigates whatever is on unfairly. Right. It's still. Highly mobile they can't they and follow. You can't you can't the change in the focus of your attention can be extremely rapid, but it's not it's no longer it's no longer happening the way it normally does where it's... It's apparently just being pulled one minute.
And So with your mind, that's say you can choose, for example to washington and sequence sensations arise feelings that arise in response to those sensations medical formations, including desire version intentions and and so forth. Verizon response feelings. And your attention not staying on one thing but it's striking different things and each one it strikes highest the full power of your conscious of awareness. Taking that thing. Absorbing what it has to offer and moving on to the next. That that's what's really important.
But the key to this in that sense is the the indispensable in the training process that what whatever you do should be done intentionally. So that's why, you know, when there's a pain and then it keeps going to think. You circumvent movement that's gone under your control. Like intentionally rather intentionally meditating on the emotion or the memory or whatever it is. And then you do it. When you made the movement but, the other thing is that you get intentionally investigate. From an objective rather a perspective.
So that's the most thing inexpensive. Okay. Would that work with sleep us to suppose? What? Would that work with sleep is what... I've I heard said that if you are dosing well meditating, if it's because of the avoiding Dodgy mine and come back to the object of meditation. If it's because you haven't had enough sleep for the last three nights, go take app and meditate later. I hear you say yeah. Okay. So if that's my situation and it is today. I just... Hopes that I glimpse a array of not taking nap, which I don't wanna to do.
Can I pay attention to my sleeping really precious. What that feels like in the eyes in the body. Why i? I've never tried that. Absolutely. That's a very good thing you excellent thing to do in meditation. And if you if you expect an advance that you may have to deal with on, I'm absurd, the doll. But I would recommend either beyond that. Every time you go to sleep at Night, watch the prospect. And then if you can, when you find yourself most those us wake up by stages. Yes. If you can train yourself, to remember at the earliest stage you're waking up to make become watch, watch the credit process as well in the system.
So yeah, that's great do chat. Go on spills on... Well, that's right. No to to train your mind to not readily slip all in whenever you recognize it's there, you try to do something to bring it out. Right. And so if you need to walk. But if you already expect that don't is gonna be there. Then b observed as possible. Don't. Thank you. That's still counteract. Check. Yeah. Okay.