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Ottawa Palyul Dharma Centre 5 June 2011 (Part 1)



 

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there's a kind of nuts and involves guidance on a regular basis about your practice per s needs to be addressed with certain people with everyone. And and then there's another kind like and and that is very conceptually based and it's very pragmatic based and very relative world based, which you know, is very important for a good foundation in terms of some of what you're talking about. And then one of the aspects too, and I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit about that, which is the connection between a teacher and a student that doesn't necessarily require such relative connection day to day and still is afford you the guidance that you require, but it's much more and kind of absolute general okay.

And still nuts and bolts kind of approach, but it's not so day to day and also not so conceptually based type reinforces. This... I have to understand everything kind of mind. I need to be Know. It's gotta be this way that way, which is something that I think I struggled with is to be able to loosen those kinds of boundaries and to loosen that kind of mind I'm just wondering if he can speak a little bit about that, John. Hey. I I hear a lot of different things what saying. Practicing in the presence of a teacher makes a difference.

And, you know, I limited it in how many people I can work with mostly, but there's a much larger number of the people that come and sit with me regularly once or twice to the week. And sometimes I barely speak to him. Absolutely really questions. They listen to everybody else questions and it seem to the answers to though. And that that too is a kind of student teacher relationship, that that does work. And there there is a benefit in that. I... You know, I... It's hard to understand what happens when you meditate in the presence of a teacher, but there is something to happen.

And I don't know if you experienced that yourself at any time. Yeah. But it it's a very it's a very real thing. Live in point before I decided to become a teacher, but I there were people who wanted to come and meditate with me and Sort like nothing they said with me. I was wasn't make he any attempt to teach. I was just... Basically, they came to with me. And and I kept hearing things. So i my meditations are so much better seventh. And I think my initial reaction was a lot just your imagination Or.

Think is the inspiration that was provided by my presence. So things like have. But I since company realize that one of the most helpful things that I can do to people's is do for people is meditate with her at at a little has nothing to do with conceptual and understanding or anything else that seems to have them but And well, that's not surprising. I we are not so since that we have a little private mine log government assignments scott list. That's not for reality of it. And so I think that's why it does make that kind of difference.

I don't you think that it is... And ways more helpful then just words an idea. Supplements words and ideas. Is guided practice. That's why the think I was wanting to do with you today. Because, you know, I can talk to you about practice without meditation but, you know, we can close our eyes together. And I can guide you through certain aspects of the experience. And that will allow you to understand it and to be able to practice it and if you try to help another. Far better than, you know, like go on on for hours talking about how to do it.

But what you hear what I mean it can always be a gap. But if we make that real return together it becomes a lot more. I don't know if that's addressing yeah. About. Okay sir all very good. Questions. And where did we stand with this whole matter of John? Asked which no I just i'm sorry her, I guess maybe years and was set up under the impression that in different stages of meditation where sort of like the different stages of John. But what I'm sort of hearing is that there they're separate but yet connected.

Yes. Because the difference movements of meditation up to one point is sort of a lead into a point where you then into your first John, and I guess that's where I'm kind of loving the book... How where does that happen at what stage I think said yesterday about the fifth court the six stage. Or the sixth stage. And I... Somewhere along the line, I either was distracted for folks something else that I sort listed it there. Okay. Well, that's that's that's an entry for... Let's talk about John's and what they are and how they fifty together.

So these stages of the call congregation Summertime, you can pass the the the all without ever practicing to sink or answering jar. But from the sixth stage on, the medi state that you're doing in your practice cancer as access. So it means that you can practice the On the sixth stage on. So what's the difference between John and what the practice you're actually doing in these? Stations. That's the question. And the The essential characteristic of John is that it is a much more complete absorption and engagement with the meditation object.

Then is either necessary, or always desirable just give cultivation of concentration and awareness. Some and in Sat. So it it is the way you could regard Jana is it's a more specialized practice that can be used to augment a supplement. The basis basic progress through the stages. Now let me explain what that John is they are and absorption answer the meditation object. They are absolutely the same kind of absorption that we're all familiar with they become absorbed and activities, you've and thoughts you become absorbed in emotions.

That's what Johnny is any anytime anytime, your mental capacity becomes completely engaged with one thing. The that's absorption. What's the difference between what we call John and additive instructions? And any other kind of absorption. All one, this is one that the buddha is spelled out very clearly in one of his su. And if you i reference to that time in hand out. I actually loaded there. But the... The v child has stepped buddha praised for those that were wholesome. And there's many un holes from those options.

You can be absorbed in the object of desire last grief Hatred. If you're familiar with a five hindrances, and is that something negative earlier? That and that sutra is dud defined wholesome genres has whole absorption and to also much. In terms of the presence or absence of any of the five. The first ten was sense desire and we know that we can become absorbed in objects success design. And second, evidence is ill will levers version and hatred. And you know you can become i'm sorry ten those kinds of all object.

You can you can become oz observed in any of the, but that is not, that's gonna do a lot of damage to you. And we do that. That's right followed that's right things in our practice we wanted an overcome. I mean my thought I go and find ourselves becoming absorbed and something also that we let go. So well the john are a whole I'm absorption freed of any of them. And the meditation object. Could be anything try about a buddha image to the breath, but it's something that is how entered inherently, neutral or inherently positive.

That's So that's one thing. About. The... Another important difference between ordinary absorption is that absorption to some greater or lesser degree can be associated with joy. Joanne happiness. This is one of the factor joint happiness are actually two of the john factors and I'll go through the john manufacturer's with you in moment. But in terms of distinguishing different kinds of absorption, those that are referred to as China by the buddha are accompanied by joy and happiness at at least in their initial stage of.

There are all kinds of absorption that we experience in life that are not accompanied by Joy and happiness and some of those some of those reports are on hold. But believe there are even wholesome absorption that are not not anybody joining happiness So this is a second characteristic that we can identify it, but a john absorption. The third is it happens in meditation rather than that's good So there's a lot of different absorption, but we're talking about once I have been hit meditation that are wholesome and the account by Joanne.

Copy knows. And then finally another way that that absorption differ from one another is what we might describe as the gaps of the absorption. That's the totality of the instruction that version. So So if you could say that absorption is not so strange for him today. And you can from your own experience, understand that we're only interested in one kind of absorption. So we're interested in an absorption that is achieved as a result of practice cultivation mental abilities. Not because the object were becoming i'm sort has some special appeal as capture or not just holding it.

That's a very special thing about. It is the result of skill not some inherent quality. Oh the object work accounting absorbed. So we do it in meditation. And we do any tension on. Okay. So this is the nature of medicaid absorption. Now they are defined in terms of the presence of certain factors. All of the absorption involve unification of mine. And it is until the sixth stage that you can achieve a sufficient unification of find to enter into the cognitive absorption of they're being talking about.

When you do that absorption, will there will be majority happiness that arise as part of that absorption. And they Means by which you enter that assertion is through the activity of directing and saying sustaining your attention, which is something that from the very beginning and you've been cultivate today. Meditation bulls. Actually Tina said this yesterday. Meditation, summertime involves, learning to direct and sustain the attention. That's right at the core. So when would you when you are ready when you're at the sixth stage, if you me if you are out familiar if you could recall what I said yesterday, when year are in the sixth stage, you'd have overcome gross distractions and dull and you've over overcome subtle bonus.

So the mind is bright and clear. And it remains where you put it, just fill a lot of other stuff in the background. The subtle distractions. And that is The the the other stuff of the background is basically the anti of absorption. So you to enter into an absorption at that stage, you you have requisite and skills and you can't do it. To do that. What you do is you find... You you need to find a way to become so totally engaged with the meditation object. And all these other distractions disappear.

And a very simple way to do that and the only way that I've ever heard of was somebody can enter into an absorption at this stage is to take the sensations of the entire body a audio object. It's a very interesting thing to do. And I think we'll do that together and But if you try to be simultaneously aware, as clearly as you can be, of the sensations in your entire body at the same time. And if you make that a little more specific if you if you become aware of sensations that have associated with the breath and the entire body, that will require you becoming so completely engaged with the meditation object that potential that entering the internal absorption.

Now. When you do that, you want to enter into a state of... Well. What flow means, this is an activity that it continues on its own. It has its own momentum. So you imagine is breath was a meditation object. You extended your awareness you're observing the breath from the entire body. And it's really taking everything that you have to stay with it, but you have a enough skill to stay with it. So you're writing this process of the rising and passing wave each cycle up. And as you succeed and staying with everything else disappears, and there's a feeling of of joy and happiness and and pleasure with doing that.

When that's happened, you can't say that you have entered the first job You have directed and sustained attention. You have, you know, because you're tension as director says they on these sensations here in the body. Enjoy happiness of reason. So all of the first four factors in there. Unification of mine is president him. All of the bulk of the giants and And so that's part thing. So you made... The first... This is the very lightest form of China. Because while you're while you're in this state a flow, i new feeling the pleasure in the happiness associated with what you've done.

And the plan that happiness is probably the way, it's coming not from any mysterious source is coming. From your success and this. It's all kinds of things you've done in your life where you achieved a certain degree of mastery and it may take all of your up to achieve that mastery, but, my gosh it's wonderful when you do it, and you just wanna keep on day and you don't want it to stop. And that is it's that experience that you're generating meditation, which constitutes this first job. So there's a real sense of me Yes.

There is. And even if that channel, it is so like, but there will be thoughts. You will. There would there'll be not a lot of thinking, that there will there will be the occasional thought that. And the thoughts will destabilize. You know, that's a it's a very job, but it's a genuine genre that it's very real. Now if you if you practice the the process of practicing the job is to practice each one until you mastered it. You can't reliably and consistently enter that on remain at it as long as you choose to.

You come out of that, then you review the process of that is mastery. So you master the first john then you're ready to move on to the second. You the case with these you're any like. I called ultra By John. The John is you access from stage six or ultra. But the the characteristic of the second is is compared to the first, is that directed sustained attention have been abandoned. And the joy and happiness still present. So that's what characterize the second joanna. So... So can you repeat that again.

I'm sorry. It's not so you're now into the second channel? Yeah. Take to go into the second time. That's that's the definition of it. Now if this in this ultra life genre. You still have an object. Your object is still sensations of the body. And so the attention. The attention is still focused and sustained. So the way that we can justified the description my description, a second jira in terms of what you able to do at this stage. Is that the second genre from here has that quality of effortless.

It's exactly the same quality of effortless as that you would cultivate in the eighth stage of sabotage. So you still have an object. The intention is still directed and sustained, but you are intentionally maintaining that it's happening by itself. And then it move into the third jaw when you do through familiarity. The only for at at any depth the only way that you can vote from second to third Charter, is to have discovered and clearly understood the difference between Joy and Happiness the difference especially between enjoy as a state of mine, happiness as a feeling that arises and consequence of that.

When you can tell difference of that, then what you do is you let go of a state of mind of joy. Now the happiness experience happiness becomes your focus. And so when you do that, you entered in too. The third child. Joy is a state of mind? Troy is just state of by. Is... Happiness is a gee like. In terms. So they find aggregates. Joy is a mental formation. And happiness is a feeling or now. Not sure i put san equivalent on everybody nice. Go dana that sounds with intuitive read, but I know, I know joy Joint with.

Joy a mental formation. It is an information accent thing. It's it's of concept. It's a mental state. The the aggregate of mental formations, is huge. Actually there's a lot of thing, but includes mental state. And so Joy is a sank card. So that's... So, you know, if you If you look at the sutra, you majority of Sank cara? Pt is a sun up, and Su is of now, and they're different things. And you compare that to what you know of these things they kind seem the same hard to separate. And as a matter fact way you think of them.

You might think apparently. You may even turn them around and say, so joy causing happiness doesn't happiness caused joy, well sense it, it it does. But they really are different things. And you you can understand that difference well enough to separate that. And the difference between the second jonah of a third on it is that you are able to let go of joy. And what remains is is the of Femur. So one of the things I like, pleasure. So pleasure another word too, like, joy pleasure happiness or kind of we know speaking for a pleasure of.

Yes. As your bodily pleasure is also the neck called Soup guy. And looks like joy? It's soup though. It's not good I have a pleasure bodily pleasure in happiness. Belong same category. And as a matter of fact, can... If you enter John, if you if you practice the On capital level what I'm talking about from the six stage. You're probably gonna experience saying be experiencing physical physical pleasure in the body much more predominantly, than it's gonna be much clearer to you. Rather than the mental aspect of happiness.

Because you're using the whole body as your meditation object And so this is where everything tends to be focused. And so the the experience of Su is gonna be more physical and less mental than is and practicing the Jonas from higher accident from a higher level. Deeper on. Spatial dimensions are a little bit contradictory. You just see cover is more visible. And yep. This particular at this particular level, the sup is more physical. Whereas the third gen if you practice Donna from a more advanced state of concentration.

The Su is going to be much more mental. And as a matter of fact from the in the the deepest genres, the genres are practice from the highest degree of Sonic top. There is no physical at all. It's entirely. If it is entirely mental. Yeah. But we're we're now talking that at the ultra high level, and Everything is good predominantly physical. There's still is some discussion thought activity at so forth. It's a very light on. How would you translate the words Pt and su? I far heard sounds Ptsd joy and Su is bliss.

Well, I'm translating them as joy and happiness. Bliss. Yes. List is often used as a way translating it. When we talk about the Su, hopefully the deeper Genres, which is more natural and physical. And then Bliss seems like a more appropriate word. So yeah. Okay so it Sometimes is rapture for Pt. Yeah. Sometimes it they will say that someone evidence of it is actually unpleasant as what Yes. When Pt is first arising therefore florida it has developed further fully. It can be associated with a lot of unpleasant sensation.

Itching, burning, eighteen, lot of movements, Can I just ask few questions which might be a stupid question and that is one one whether or this issue the Yes. That When when you're doing more that and Pt arrives, you see that you are maybe possible that this is a an ancient way all getting the juices around all Absolutely it is it's a way of hitting reduce running. I like at least as much as Serotonin and it involves dopamine. Dopamine is there other they that's. And... Yeah. So... Yes. And physiological, you're you're using your mind to c your brain into to behaving down a particular way.

Pt arises as a result of that. Yep. And so eventually The pt disappears and the third have the Disappears in the fourth channel. And the third John Ecuador E county Auction in the Fourth channel. The has completely overtake the Sup... Is third Jana? And before e Arises? In the third john act arises and in the fort, the Super has disappeared and it is the that we're without. Well, is experience. It's total acceptance. Totally accept. A complete non reactivity. No no urge. For anything to be different on anything to be different do know?

Is there an element of surrender to that? There is there is definitely a quality of surrender associated with developing our. But once you've got when of is nothing to surrender that's surrendering to the air. It's just there. Yeah. Okay. I if I get something to to write on, I could illustrate sort of maybe kinda drop pictures and So if you picture. I I think they able see it. So if if if you imagine, you know, the stages of so much have first second, third four fifth six accept tenth. Okay? So i talking about as you get up to the six stage, and then you're going to branch off and you're gonna practice gonzalez on the sixth stage and so you can practice four levels of jive from the six date.

And if if you have the ascending states on it like this, the Genres branch off from it and they go up and parallel beside it. Because These genres, when you when you achieve the first john from the sixth state, you are... You have a very powerful back assembly of the seventh stage of Summit in or to put it away other way route when you achieve the seventh stage of San, it is very much like what you would have experienced if you practice Jonathan in the same state. Likewise, the second job is like the eighth stage and the third child is like the night stage and the fourth child.

Like can't state. You see relationship you're there. May say, well, what's the value of practicing Java? From the six station, and I'll tell you the way I was trained. I was told you can't practice John until you master some the talk. Basically can't stage. Don't even think about John before that. And that was the way I learned in Practice. And years later, I began to hear from people ago doing a kind of job practice. It was a involved much nice wider degree of concentration there I was familiar up.

My first reaction was I don't know what you're doing. But it's not John. Right? I know about jonathan. But then I kept hearing about this and so I I began to investigate a little bit. Eventually, I went and did a retreat with bree tim. It teaches form of Light Jon that was originated with. He's never yet she was a a german logging. And leagues there actually a fantastic teacher any teacher sees on. And I went didn't retreat with him and had discovered the possibility of all these genres us that could be practiced from a very large state of concentration.

And at at that time, of course, now the the John is that we teachers are practiced from a state of concentration that corresponds to the settlement stage of sabotage. You don't actually have to be a seventh stage medi though. He usually finds that people going to retreat and a certain a fair proportion of people company one of these retreats why the third or fourth or fifth day will have good enough concentration that even though in general, they may not be a seventh stage. They will be at the stage that's necessary to access the job.

So in other words, basically, if you can have the kind of concentration that corresponds to the seventh stage of Sustain for ten or fifteen beds. You can practice the light on the way with lead. Two so. So I learned these from him. I was fascinated with that I went back. And my students kinda said, I think I know wait it's gonna improve your concentration a lot, you know, that that's started doing this and it helped enormously. I didn't know at that point about but using the whole body as a way achieve gonzalez from the sixth stage.

But I was already teaching people all the way I learned myself was using a whole body meditation again the sixth stage to get to the seventh stage. So when when I heard the people were doing this, immediately it made sense to me. Yes. Can do. You can do four john starting from the six stage using the whole volume meditation mode. But why would you do this? Will be recent is that practicing these jaw is a really powerful way of accelerating your back. You know, if when you gets through the six days, you practice these whole body John, they going to advance to the seven ten eight stage much more.

When you get to the seven stage, you've you practice the kind of white challenges that got raising from teachers. You're going to advance to the eight of night states more. So it turns out that contrary control to what start, rather than John is being something that you save until you process. You can use the John when you reach the point where you're capable of of practicing johnny, you can use the On to enhance the quality of, by vic drink powerfully. And so that's that's why I for you is the real value of the challenge is earlier own it.

Now just briefly to describe what he to, you know, if if if the Job that I have already described to, if we call those ultra light of super light or something like that. Then they be raising join. I called them light on. So that may start from the concentration level of seven stage Sabotage. And what you do there You see at this point, the T t begins to emerge before the John. This is said Dean was asking a question yesterday. That's I I if I understood you correctly, doesn't the Pt arrive, when you reach the first child?

That's true with the very widely on been the deeper john is Ptc always present first. And so in these light charges, what do you do is you use the Pt as vehicle for the on? If you'd... Yes. If you... If this goes back, you you can be in a profound state of absorption. But if it's... Pt is not present and that absorption wouldn't be wouldn't qualify as a buddha donor. Right? But you can you can have absorption with without pt. They're saying there's four factors. Right? Yeah the jenna. That's right.

And and Painting is one of the Jonathan factors. So Yes. And I just link up got made to or. Yeah. And that's thing. You have right Yes. I think I would agree with that. Now that let's talk about the Jonathan D john's that I was just talking about when you take the whole body. Yeah. As your object. The pt won't be there at first until you get into the flow of it, and then the Pt starts to arrive. And it's at that point, that we would say call that the first John. So in terms of physiological what's happening.

All the colleges and conditions are right. And so they're most dopamine and Serotonin circuits that then they can start firing and producing that. That okay. And then you started that you experience the Pt. Have all these early men manifestations with P are There noisy, jittery. And they involve a lot of other strange sensations that you actually have to you have to make an effort to ignore. You know? And the the At first, the the pleasure and happiness aspect is not very strong. It's is it's sort of minimally present.

So the the Pt goes through maturation process and later on there will be so intense that the translation word like rapture is appropriate, but it's not initially. So I just mentioned that because you don't have intense joy rising. Doesn't mean that you don't have Pt. It just means that it's said an early an immature stage and know John you mentioned that joy has a state of mind or a mental formation and that happiness is a feeling. Could I hear that. So You're you're saying is Pt because I never heard...

So Joy is Pg and you're saying that the the Pt arises in physical. Yes. So... Yeah. So now I'm confused. So it's a mental formation. And and now it's Arising in a physical, which is it it manifest physically. It's... Yeah. So it is It is defined and in buddhism has a mental formation. And as a type of metal formation all the natural state, it's a state of mind. And it's actually corresponds to brain state. It's a brain. Brain state. And it manifests it it manifests manifest both physically and naturally.

Yep. The senegal on that. So at at the four stage that physical part of it it's it's really... But it's not indian place anymore. As the fourth child? Boys got. It's I action enjoy is really gone. But it you that's right. Yeah but can't fourth, they... Actually, in the third John the joy is gone the pleasure in happiness remained. And then the fourth tone the pleasure and happiness enter the background down. So there's no more physical. But it's our much more control. So I I don't know if I clarified verified this yet.

But... Okay. Pt is a a is a brain buying state and has that brain mine state begins to develop. Its first manifestations are often strange physical sensations. For myself when Pt starts rise, Well, it used to be nowadays it's hardly how at all, but it used to be it was always herald by... I start to solid so strongly and i just be swallowing and swallowing and so. And usually said like guess my thumb should just got twitch handed jerk and things like that. Just shutters go through my. Some people have a much more dramatic...

Penguin or... Yeah. If feel. Pressure on yeah. I is pushing on the top of your. There's a large number of physical sensations. And some of them are unpleasant. Some of them are very young unpleasant. One of my students but you don't so i. For many years, she would reach this point in her dedication. And she would break out into a swear and become totally nausea. And she she trying to stay with it as long as she could, but eventually, she just... She have to put meditating because soon she that soon she stopped meditating.

Everything was right again. But she'd be sitting there, you know, panic and drinks sweat and, you know, okay. Marketing, how long it was gonna be before she got past. Now she's completely past this and it's wonderful. But when Pe first comes up, it it has a lot of these not so wonderful qualities to And then some people experience that more strongly. It's only a the later that the plus of aspects are. Kin means joy literally wait. And so the name Pt t is given to this phenomenon. But the joy that gives it's his name doesn't really arrive to arise until sometime after a russia.

And and that's that's the part and it's associated with physical pleasure. As T t developed, you go stage where there's a lot of unusual physical sensations. And then you come to a place where all normal physical sensations disappear. You don't feel the pressure of your body as the question anymore. You don't feel it closed things like that. You have this percent you'd have an altered perception of your body, which as with everything take different forms of different people. But sometimes it it's often so your body is just this empty space with there's a shell surrounding it and it's a shell of subtle vibration and the part that you go into the more pleasant family it comes.

And when and that's that's that is the beginning of what's called physical client fee because when the normal sensations disappear, all the pain ever aches, but following a asleep of this and that. That disappears with it. Your body feels incredibly still, and it has to some greater a lesser degree, A quality of pleasant. And that quality of pleasant is so strong, but it actually takes it effort to move, you know, the bail and it's time to end, is you really you don't wanna move if you don't want to disturb this Perfect.

Pleasant. Still. That's the physical pleasure aspect of. And then, they the mental aspect of Pt is is quite vibrant and excited kind of joyful happiness. When it's fully developed when it's very strong it's sort of, you know, it said jumping up and down chills running after your spine excited kind of happiness. Analogy you know, the the ten year old, it gets a horse for their Christmas present. I never thought they would. Or they twenty year old who defines out to the person their totally we average with feels the same way about them.

That's joy. Asked kind of feeling that was schedule it. Yeah. I was wondering is he... Because experiencing these these jobs cases. Is it is it necessary or is it natural that your activities outside of your vision practice are more wholesome. Things that you do. That's yes. Because it not supported by that it's pushing like. That is absolutely true. Yeah. That it's absolutely true. The the joy and the happiness, these two in these two Jaw factories. Are opposed specifically by the hindrances of ill will and worry agitation.

And so if you if you haven't done the work outside of meditation, then that the Pt and happiness as sort of they're not going to rise very easily. And they may not race at all. Yes. I glad you mentioned that. There's very much independence there. It's stuff. Just wondering is possible you can... I guess, the answer is yes, but I'll just experience with these your. For example, but again, on the body configured to deal able a challenge more I some people seem to have that happen while they're there, you know, application at least like, a lot of streets how.

You know not even meditate at just going a word. Or i I might be say a martial product doing something in that that this energy will arise, could be, like, example one time in a matter five seconds of my entire body broken and sweat, and then I completely me just i know app once she go and sit down. For completely behind. And what... I now way it wasn't then I had no idea. Yeah. Yeah. See if the they can't arise. At any time during meditation as I said yesterday, they got all sort of rise outside medication.

Yeah. And hindi india in general carrie, they're good signs and positive signs there. You know, you're you're brain bind this the whole thing right direction. But they can't be sturdy kinda uncomfortable to Yeah. About. Sort of visual kind of things happening, you know don't know what would that be categorized a physical? And that's one of the physical manifestations. Pt is the called the elimination phenomenon. It takes different forms. But it's the experience of some kind of why what it becomes most tenth it is called the all prevailing light because it seems to saturate everything everywhere.

You got your eyes closed, but everything has being just light. And most often feels like it's coming from a applying above median, but at... Sometimes it feels like he's coming front chest I always thought that it's very interesting if you look at religious where show radiation coming to give this chest. Like the idea of a hate my release one but that experience of all created involved. But and that's that's it. It's full all. Initially, can be forbes that appear that seem to move around on different colors.

It can be flashes of supplies coming end endpoints. Can take a lot of different forms support out. And there's also an auditory component, which is also part Pt, which is buzzing or ringing quite frequently, but some people more fortunate people. It's like they hearing something so celestial too music in the distance this beautiful basically. I can't quite hear, but yeah pretty that right here. That's very pleasant aspect. Not everybody has oh wait. In general, I found people have really strong energy experiences and their body are less likely to have light or the light hers it shows up later on.

And not everybody has the auditory those do have the auditory thing. That is one of the things that will very often come up outside meditation or specific beyond negotiation be. Ringing starts in your and then it just we won't my like right hang after days. Just question. So it's also kind possible to skip, you know, chris the peel. Physical their body. Could you mean any of these things can't be present to a agreed or lesser. So it could be the yeah you pass through that stage and that's started noticeable.

But if I explained to you, the the way that the reason to teachers thomas, actually she i have i... I I know we I like i never i i came. So really, she's the one that deserves the acknowledgement my through. One on, but But I don't know very fine. Anyway. The way let you enter that job. It's probably the seven states. So you're sitting there where you have your focus is very very clear. Your breath is probably become so shallow that just, you know, it's the thought right passenger through your life.

How can how can i build this fight me enough to keep my body alive? You know, very quiet mind is very product. Thoughts are very few far between various chain and the background. Either and unless you intentionally direct your attention towards body sensations or external cells. You're not gonna notice something. Unless it's really strong. Like in the fly ends or the atlanta right here nose you're were gonna post it obviously. But most ordinary sensations are just... They saw that they're gone with their disregard.

So this this is a description of the quality of meditation of seventh stage. And anytime you experience a medication out that quality, you can practice this kind of John. What you do is you you abandoned the draft as meditation object or really using those meditation audio before? In favor of a pleasurable sensation in your body, any pleasurable sensation in your body will do. Although very commonly, you can induce this as you put a smile on your face, just a small smile. And I feeling like a pleasant has well arise, and it'll seem to be focused the part of your if fix yeah.

But it can be somewhere else you can feel it in your regard compete it in your abdomen and you can feel it in your hands. But if you find a pleasurable sensation in your body, you may that your notation object and you transfer this focus attention to their object. And you you hold out as steadily it clearly as you can. One of two things will happen. You focus on the pleasant sensation, It will either fade away or it will be become more intense. If it fades away, you go back to the breast for little while find a new pleasant sensation.

Right again. Until if begins to intensify. And then you stay with it as it en. That pleasurable sensation will grow and become... As becomes more intensive, it becomes easier to state where tells you would get just naturally hold your attention those childhood. Now you... And and that is that is an evidence t. And usually, at this point, we... There are some other physical stations of Pt arise dealing of energy, you might feel vibrations or feel. Energy moving around in your abdomen that trying to something okay.

So and it's quite alright to include the physical aspects of Pt as part of your notation object you can expand so you're not only monitoring the pleasant sensation, but you're also long trained the energy currency, you feel things like. And of course that helps to create an absorption. So what you do, you're actually using the Pt itself, the inc Pt that the the first thing inkling of Pt to kind you make them your meditation object and you use them to enter the first drummer. And then once you've master the first dollar, then you make the transition to the second, by letting go of all it the physical energy manifestations and focusing on And then as well as I said previously, to go to third john, and you have to learn to distinguish between joy so you can retain the one and let go of the other.

Yeah magic you go first child. So you can practice the job from. Just from the state that corresponds to the seventh stage and summertime. And if you... If you're in a retreat situation, you know, it doesn't matter that you're not actually a seven stage on top practitioner or that everything tape you sit down here right into a seventh state. Could you go into retreat after a few days just about anybody? Can achieve the state corresponding to that practice those childhood. And they will power reinforce rest in their.

There is a a deeper form of challenge that you can access once your p produces a strong elimination phenomenon. Have This is very characteristic of the eight stage of involved summertime. And Pt will be very strong and there will be something elimination. So that you can take the elimination kind of meditation all object. And entry into a very deep challenge using that fills your object. Now Aj brought on so in Australia teaches, John using using that elimination for medication object. Covid Yes.

That is what is called. Yeah. And then there is never got I hope this isn't okay. Thing. I'm try real remember in the... There's another caroline teacher that teaches very deep johns. They use the elimination as meditation logic object. And I I can't hear you. Oh, i yes. That's very oh. Excited off. That's right. And there's no he has a couple of students, American states say is trained and we're also teaching these genres that use the right. Use the light as a meditation object They call it pandemic time.

That can happen it as a very gen. This would run the third job. Don't the the illumination happens around the eighth stage or Summit. And you use it has an object to enter the first job. So we like Four john is branching off of the six stage and four John is ranch off Episode stage and now talking about four branch. Wonder You miss. Yeah. I I I I know it's so easy to. So difficult i pay just with words really need started names. By drive that the first gentleman correspondent landed with the six the set the the...

You, you know, a second join that would be eighth. But... Yeah. No. I understand that. Yeah. But... No. From the sixth stage you can go through a whole sequence of forge hours, but they're just very, very white on. At the senate stage, You can also enter a whole sequence with for job. But they are somewhat deeper still wide. Then from the eighth stage, you can enter a much deeper jaw entering the first Donna using the light as your meditation object. Now the people talk and Aj bra will do this. They they deviate from the class description here, because again all other forms of jaw, you pretty well abandoned the meditation object after the first shot.

But they do the fact they hold on the meditation object right through to fourth. That's a little bit. It's a little bit of a deviation from from the classic teaching. But there is yeah. Another deep form a as a matter of fact there probably other forms that I don't know About or maybe haven't to been discovered in between all of these. But with the full development of sabotage, you can enter the kinds of jaw that's described in. Scriptures that involves the complete withdrawal of the line from the senses.

And to do, requires meditation object that's entirely mental and nature. And so Dino mentioned Near. A poly word that means appearance. And an ordinary speech. You you use it during much the same way you do the english word appearance. And so you can say have your meditation object that the appearance of the object changes over time. So the preliminary appearance of a meditation object, which is called a par comma is where you focus your attention on the breath and you perceive it as air moving in and out of nostrils in space and through time.

It's a highly conceptual formation. And then as you proceed in your meditation, it becomes more refined. If you're using the bread application object, it becomes the Luca n, which is the acquired appearance. It's acquired as a result of your practice, it they... Along with everything else as you practice goes along, consensual thought and process of conceptual, falls away and becomes less evident. So naturally your perception of the sensations in your graph account more, just the pure raw sensation and the conceptual commercialization falls away.

So that there's just these sensations and it's very it's very typical at at some point you realize, well, I don't know whether this is the of the sensation. And you can know immediately you have to engage the conceptual part of your mind to know that. So they not conceptual, appearance of the meditation object simply as sensation is the is the look upon that's. And that the third appearance transition of against is where the medication object it is a purely mental representation, and that's called Kathy Bog into.

Yeah this is used for entering the deepest of all of the Genres. If you're using the breath, as your meditation object. Those sensations register on your nervous system, and they leave an impact. In by. And so the the original d that you started out with was where your mind had taken that mental representation and constructed it conceptually into air and nose and space and time and everything on. And then later on, you gone to the other stream where there was no at all was just the sensation. So this last n is actually vanilla part of the process, it's pre conceptual.

And it's the network representation it's the imprint on the mind out the sensation. And so the breath... The breath is experienced... The whole breath cycle has experienced simultaneous. What it's most likely is If you know what, Ekg trace looks like on oscilloscope, you and it keeps repeating. And you see it over every again and that's each new trace overlays the last one the last one hasn't quite faded away. And this is more or less is kind of an analogy for what, when you become aware of the mental imprint the mental representation of the sensations in your mind.

You... That they last And if you think about it, this has to happen, all of your sensory experience. You know, when I speak a word, your brain has to store all the information so that it can't be great as holes that you recognize to work. So there is this repeated implant the sensations of the graph on your life. And you can discover that. And you can take that as your meditation knowledge object. And it's completely metal in nature. So this allows you to completely withdraw the line from sensitive.

By taking that. And that's used to enter the deepest of the jobs. That enter the first job and it's deepest part. The know because you're completely withdrawn from the senses And and also because at this point, Pt has not only matured it has already subsided and intensity. So when you enter this first john, there really is no physical manifestation anymore. So you entering the first China in its deepest form is a the million experience of the line. You have the object, which is this mental representation of the brown.

And there is the that'll save of joy, and there is the feeling of happiness. And so you can do this sort of serial dissection of mine. And you can you can drop the mental representation. Actually. It doesn't really go anywhere. It's just you let it fade into the better norm. And what you are predominantly aware of state of your mind have. Look the now say t slip to the background and you feeling or their job that arises And you then all that corresponds to the seventh level of medicines. That...

Oh no. This all response to the the the vinyl stage which silent the final stage. Yes. I'm talking give about the deepest shot now i too. Okay. I'm sorry. I mean because how much is it is there nine joiner? Well, me and you are good to I may explain that. Okay. The they're office same things like they're night job. But once you get technically, There are four jobs and the fourth jaw has four formulas forms. But mh. Four four less, manifestations over before trial. So that makes a total of a And then, there is something beyond this eighth state.

That's called this succession. Feeling and perception. It's also known as they're nirvana without remainder. And that's what would do you refer to as the ninth john. And that is all accessible by non return at our hearts who have achieve the the path thereof on through John practice. And it is that they're gotcha here without remainder it is. They're into the same state that of and enlightened baby injuries into not the time of depths with the body targeting about it. So what you hear is that there are four four on, which are classically v four on.

And then there the four variance of the fourth giant. Which you often hear described as the has the fifth through eighth hr. That's. Can I just do. And just to step back a little bit to to to what you were talking about when you said that one takes as an object of meditation of the data. You watch you watch The mental whatever Yeah. It's it seems to be. It's easier for one when you say you watch you. Than the mine because the mind bit funny word that covers a lot of stuff This one actually getting into the when you are dealing yourself in these mistakes.

Actually just being aware of what's going on with without with the connections and the brain and the way the the brain operates. That that you be... That you take, you know, like the the the meter, your your object meditation and day you as you describe the longer only own. Got an eventually you are actually making yeah the function is your blamed and your brain, you what's happening in your what's your objective meditation. That seems to me to be do these efforts is going along with with this. With what's the administration?

I Yes. And you. The way that to i my i I suppose to avoid try would be my theory or what's happening in the brain with these three yeah. Is that there is a a part on the outside towards the back of of your brain that does a very sophisticated collaboration and integration of information. And it's very close to the speech center and so, you know, it involves concepts. Wise. If something enters consciousness that has been processed in that part of the brain. It's highly conceptual, like fit breadth that we were have expand.

Now there's a strip of tissue about the middle here. All the the primary sensory cortex. When that's exposed stimulated accurately frequently, and somebody will feel sensations and a particular part of the body depending stimulate test strip. The whole body is mapped out there. And That's pretty much the raw sensation. I think that when you have the acquired appearance of a meditation object. What's entering content consciousness is that that raw data from that strip there. So you know, it's been...

It's hasn't been processed it has not it's not conceptualize it does really have a lot of big meaning to... It's just sensation. Almost meaningless sensation. But in between the strip here and this place back here really more extensively processed. This information goes through another part of the brain. The function is to integrate sensory information from one organ and one part body with other parts of the body. So if it joins information of different kinds together prior to sending it to the part of the brain it gets such us.

And I think with the... With this last minute, it's it's what's happening in that part, but it's entering consciousness. So that's that's my theory. Because the that arises in the is is ci. If you I don't know you know what the the the different sensory qualities are ming together. So you you have that experience even have experiences that are visual ming of all olfactory and auditory and and. Yeah. It's not it's not clearly a distinctive one of the other. So I think what's happening Whatever, whatever happens in the brain cause us to be conscious of the activity and some part of our brain.

It's gaining a lot of versatility that it normally doesn't have. Normally, we just... We only know the stuff the comes from this space bag here and we have our conceptual view the world. And then by disregard that consistently long enough, and then consciousness access was this sensory data. But as you become more skilled and sophisticated, you can begin to access other parts of the of the brain's processing accessory information. Pretty amazing. Yeah. That's the ninth at the light Jana, which basically you said, I think I believe you said up being like ar or non turner.

Yeah. Which is basically death and Enough nevada. Would that be corresponding to the tibetan practice of po was the transfer of consciousness at the time of death, that goes, you know, there's there's a period through the bard where your mine can not returned to the cycle of rebirth. It's that understanding of or I don't know if and word the word is not understanding, but that's knowing. That there's a connection between. They're very different practices. They're different practice. But theoretical levels there knack.

Yeah. I think Yes. So deviation. So if if if you're saying that you can just physiological map owns experiences so can you just say choose with that if you if if you did go surgery and just stimulated certain parts of the brain. You could just elicit. All these experiences these genres. Are actually training somebody. Yes. You could elicit these but to absolutely no purpose on... And this matter this has been done. And and brain stimulation experiments with with conscious patients. These different areas, I speak of habits been and have them and they do produce the same kind of effect.

So But that by itself is it's really only academic. No. Respect yes. It's a spiritual. Yeah. When so it's just... I guess what comes mind because I don't know anything John. And I called today because somebody just email And this is happening. So here I didn't know i'm here. So clear the intent to practice it's if important and so it's it's going to be guided by that. But when we actually sit and team, it's Are these things very organic? Or is there a tendency them to say oh is this a account or the night?

This versus just sitting possible. Well. Not sure. I quite understand here because the job are a particular way of practicing. So John... And this is something we haven't addressed yet. There are an extremely powerful inside practice. Very extremely powerful but us just. But they're very different kind of a approximate practice that most of the time in this country and people use the word will pass on ought to refer to one specific kind of practice developed by the h Say, which I think he acquired from and and and go and say it on.

Anyway, and and it's not that bold that dates back to the late nineteenth century. But there are many whiplash for our practices. We're talking about means inside super inside. And so any practice, that is intended to bring it down insight can be called the repository about. And that one is only one John is probably oldest with Us practice and existence. And a question Mah is boss practice. Familiar You just some button on new guys. I seem to live. Yes. Well. How drive is it's where you are meditating on the line itself.

Why in order to practice my, you have to master considerable sabotage skills. Because what you do in the course of Sabotage, you will learn to focus your attention very tightly closely on one thing and hold it there but you also learn a control scope of attention. So you can also expand your awareness have an experience it, but sometimes is open awareness. Correct. The focus of attention expands to take in everything day. And this is the skill that you need to practice No. When do you have this experience of open or wear desk?

Initially, it's going to be difficult to perceive the mind because you perceive the object arising. And in and doing bon practice, you deliberately relax the control that you previously exert. Sometimes it's called bond meditation. So you start to allow sensations and thoughts and different things like that to arise. And you observe them as they do. And at some point, you understand that do you understand the nature of the mind and that these things are rising or arising in the mine. So it's kind of a finger ground reversal at first, all you see is the things are arising in the mind.

Not that different experience. Or there's that coming out there's money. But then this sort of reverses and your pump This is the mind. And these things are arising in the mind, and they are of the same dangerous as their mine. And then, of course, you realized wait minute the minds are the same nature of these things, it's all saying you carry on expiration of it. I didn't talk about John as an i practice, but that's what they owe. And then the deepest genres is, what you... What you are aware of when you abandon the meditation object after the first?

Is the mind itself. So all are the practice of on the line. Is actually ib variant of John practice. That essentially the beginning of lo or response to achieving a state of second shot. And then deliberately, doing the dawn meditation thing, deliberately allowing things to begin to cover up. Now it's it's different than than when you ordinarily are overwhelmed by of thoughts and sensations. Because the mind is the things come up slowly and I makes it impossible to meditate on the line and we'll do this kind of practice.

But to put it into the continent of the context of all these other practices, mah Is would pause in our practice, which is can't you can view it as a variant of China practice. It relies upon achieving a degree of control or scope retention so they even can achieve open where that's how tear and us on practices also use this open awareness approach. But if they're very similar if you see a description of hell, you'll say, wow actually sounds a lot like not this visibility it's essentially the same.

I don't know if that's helpful. But Yeah. I'm just curious. All of these different levels of meditation past or when you're actually in the johns. Is that the sort of thing that's available to the a first who is just living their life and and pursuing a practice, or is that something that is more more accessible only to somebody who, you know, does extensive with retreats and like, does it require days and endless days? Or is that the depending thing you can have a small new practice at home and and with your son and and you can slowly climb.

Okay. It it is... Absolutely all of this is accessible to a eight percent. And as a result of doing a diligently a regular practice, and supplementing that with longer retreats whenever you can do that. Pat I don't need three here to retreats, so I don't even need three months retreat. So this can all be accomplished as a late person that's. Yep supplementing it with retreat so the kind of duration that you can usually accommodate down a great like. That's all it's all okay. But you just... You will go beyond what the average lay and up.

I mean, something I do successful at a achieved in sean's and practicing these others us. Almost always answer up meditating two or even more hours a day. And usually, setting a aside one day week when they were practice quarter four five six hours. And whenever they have vacation time and things like that, they'll go them do an intensive retreat for a week. Two weeks, three weeks, whatever possible. So, you know, and forty five minutes a day is not kind really Thank you. You can make huge progress for forty five minutes today.

But at some point, you'll need more. And usually at that point, It's really easy because it's all you're really interested in. Know, you know, and the war... The more you experience the fruits of the practice, they they the more important and obviously, is then all the other stuff that you have been doing and that everybody else has been doing. And so your priorities change your focus changes and and that Thank you both for that direction because you don't need to. You know, you don't need to go into.

Terry. So well, we've described we're fully Are their relationship to some me a damage to. Identified the relationship to the major practice. And I I've said that This is an insight practice. The John is already inside practice, which you'll hear things quite to the contrary. But if you look at the sutra. It's very clear. The main practice top buddy buddha was John. He referred to. All the descriptions of john and that hand out that you can download I some references, there are some translations of poly scriptures.

He uses to turn mindfulness and clear property comprehension in association with his descriptions of each of the. He's making it very clear that John are a mindfulness practice. Now this is something that he introduced that seems to have originated with him. Because he learned Jonathan factors from no not around the food time. So the job practice preceded, you know But they were practiced the perspective that was thinking on the practice, he was thought that these form jaw were states that correspond responded to a being that had been liberated from cycle of Some Sahara who had achieved union with withdraw.

And this was this was the spiritual goal. Was to achieve union with robin and to ever be reborn into him and far. And And the... This came from a tradition that was highly ritual highly magical. And so what what modern scholars are saying is it appears that the teachers like your doctor wrong the creature Ka. Their was that Liberation was only possible after death. And the way that you achieved it was by spending as much time as you could sitting in the formal johns. And somehow sitting in the form out is as much as you can to do, which produce a lot of...

That does produce a lot of pleasure peaceful strategy. Things that... Does make life better. But the real goal that spend enough time sitting in these charges during your lifetime, and then when you died, you had achieved yi with withdrawing rebar. And this is what the buddha rejected. He mastered those methods. Yeah. He looked at what was all about. And he said, copy car. Is not going right. And subsequently, he said, you can't become enlightened give this line. Idea anybody can. And then he said...

And the way you do it, he is to practice the With mindful awareness. And that's what's seems to not passed down quite clearly. Because that the Genre practices do involve by footwear awareness and stay involved the most important aspect applying, which is intros brands. So in John you become absorbed and a meditation object. And you do excluded from your consciousness, all extraneous external factors at all mundane, ordinary, trivial thoughts and emotions and worries and things like that. That's all got.

But the very definitions of the Are a description and extremely refined intros awareness, you are aware of your mental state. You are aware feeling, you're aware aligned itself. As a matter act. In fourth John. There is the experience of cities. In other words you are able to explore mine, you are able to go beyond the limitations of the individual line. So it is... The the Job is properly practiced are really an extreme form of mindful awareness specifically focused on intros awareness, over the mind itself.

The simple process of going through the Job is like dissect the way to different layers of the line. And this leads to insights the various source. One of which is like an onion there is no essence of identity in the middle after the last letter car is nothing part. You know And there is no hotline. There is no soul herself that if you continue the this section you have since this is the truth of me. So there is that revelation. And the practice of John is and the approach to the Vagina, you will have experience to.

Many were off not john with us actresses they're all about ringing, you're not to deploy. Where you experience perm and where you experience emptiness. And some practices on the way join lead to those kinds of experiences and they give you insight as result. They gave you insight get the three characteristics there. But the John themselves, the way there be practice is And this is also described in great detail in the sutra. That the way to practice the job is in right practice is you answer in the, you're remaining the job, you leave the vagina, and then you immediately reflect what was present in the john, i was prison?

What was president Before you had? What was present and what was lacking in the Jaw was present what's lacking when you come out of the job? And you do that over over again. So it's an investigation active investigation. It's bringing the last two enlightenment factors of diligence and investigation to the process. And so you go through all of the Jobs practicing this way. And insights accumulate until you see the pound inside corresponding to street. Got just p. Purely practicing the genres has is a form of of inside meditation, but but it does not according to it's the phone realizing we report now go through action So one connect and one action say that alone practicing going to get do the job.

Is a very valuable role. And why you go. It's not the be all and handle It's the absolutely right. It's not. Doesn't i in the fact that you have to go this way at this way... Yeah. That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. There there are many different ways to achieve or what yes matter fact my my my favorite everything's is the saying that in enlightenment is an accident, practice only makes us actually. Actually can have it at any time. Hasn't happened. Yet. Keep pricing. But yeah. The the Are are are one right.

And know very, very ancient maybe they're a very powerful way. But all these other practices and the reason that they exist, the reason that that pass down to us reason that they're still being taught is because if they also need to us. Yeah. I think that that is true. It said, Just doing the John won't result in enlightenment because that's what buddhist as teachers did is they practice john as they sat there in these giant absorption that. And really the sort of practice that The buddha was recommending.

The practice that I was taught, you know, I was told to send John for two hours is waste day time. That, you know, better that you should enter and leave on a dozen times. And practice the review and and the reflection after after And leave he's shot it because that's where that's where the inside comes. That's for be weight handcuffs. No. So to just sit in John as gives a plus experience. Quite wonderful. But a wing came at Light eyeballs, it it's a cognitive transformation. It his it is as and it comes about through a cumulative effective experiences that offer at the deepest level your intuitive way or s the perceiving the way things are.

You perceive this world as anti independently real self existence and you experience yourself as likewise self existent and independent separate entity. And that counts from really deep Well. That is your intuitive perception of reality. And that is the problem that we're trying to overcome. That's what we wait names just what, when that intuitive perception changes when you cease to see The world substantially real and yourself which substantially real. And when you realize that clicking to this collision has been but also all of your pain and can't only lead to paint.

There's only there's there's no other very help. That's that brings about the transformation. A different way. Yeah. So how would you structure this? Example we do not care no or. No. I'm curious how i Okay. The way to do it it's not it's not... Sorry. It is not in the intellectual or conceptual analysis. Yep. It is a reflection and review. It's just calling to mind and concerning. And you just repeat it over over to Downtown. Repeated observation results and understanding emerging from it, seeing something emerging from it that you weren't saying before.

And so you repeat it and the more you repeated it the more understanding arises, but you start thinking about. You'll get lost in the concepts. And even if after you review, you were starting make notes about Oh, I realized it's and realize that. You run great risk of trapping yourself at your own sexual stop just kind after search screen about something. Yes, hold it in your body and on i slack on it. Yeah. Well the the the questions you have are positive and advance. And their their held is part of.

Mh You gonna be before. You just Yeah see what's happening there. Not Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Just That's right. And that's that's that's all the guidance you need is to have those questions in the background of what's spare what's not there it's changed. So and we're what we're trying to do is just be in a space for the insights to arise. Is that the conditions. Which and that's a really important part of it. Is a create a space that is kind conducive to inside rising but the other thing that's important is we have to train the experiences that provide them material from which the insights will arise.

So we. And and so you you enter the job leave the jaw and this gives you the this gives you the material that. Yeah. So both parties have to be there. All of this mental training, all of this training or ideas. It's purpose is to bring us to a point where we can look at what's been in front of us all along. And seeing what was there all so we're seeing it for the first time. The the inside into imp, which if you do this practice, you're likely experience insight into affirmative. And anti several times through the six seven point eight stages.

The format i will take. This is this is actually a result of that second you're seeing or where you're experiencing sensations as raw sensation with pretty conceptual. If you just really focus in on the sensations of the breath, they cease to be me hand and out some place. They cease to be sensations. You know, they go as some point there's still some warm cool that's pressure and movement. But it something like that disappears as well. And it's just it's like their system collaboration. And the reaction in your mind is like the ground is falling out from under your feet.

You mind leaps back. Where it can take a big enough objective to is to make it into something real. That's the brand. Yeah. Gives the sense of security. But when that happens, you zero and again, I go back to that place where everything dissolves into vibrations. And you keep doing that and you realize This is all really is. This is what imp means. It doesn't mean that they not last. It means that there is nothing brought flex. And my mind takes the flux of sensation. And it makes her work... And it makes a self out.

And that's empty as you realize. Oh, that's what this emptiness of is all. My mind is taking this stuff and interpreting as a world. You go we in and the world disappears and you come back out and the world he reappear you go. Your mind, you caught your mind on the. Not your mind in the after creating reality. So that's an insight into imp or or empty. And, of course, in our day day lives we're being regularly to think that there is an eye that it is that it is permanent. And then, you know, we we are really you and being separate right.

Absolutely. And to to sustain ourselves functionally in the world, we can't afford to lose that capacity. Right? But a really important thing is when you start to have insights as a result of meditation experiences, then you need to apply that understanding and the real world for so you can even while your in the magic show, you can see that it's what it really is. And that's that's gonna be important part of. And even way if you haven't had some of these insight, generating experiences and meditation.

You can still loop in the same direction by just really clearly understanding at an intellectual level meeting of imp and anti emptiness in windows cell. And observing in your daily life, and they're trying to penetrate beyond the illusion. And this this helps greatly to prepare the mind. Or insight and for awakening. If you examine your mind you're continuously giving opportunities that need the to see the nature of the ego as a mental construct and a one that that is constantly changing and and substance you also are constantly getting opportunities to see how how our attachment to that construct causes this suffering, you know, over and over again.

Somebody says I think it bothers you why you turn the news and you hear something and about as you why and on and on through throughout the day. You're being afflicted by your own attachment to your own ego. And if you... If you turn your attention to that and examine it, it begins to become there and and it it prepares you for understanding what emptiness of self. More p in that. So all of these things are They're all serving the purpose of bringing us to the place of having these kinds of insights having.

Not to understand refine your abilities so that you could use your find in ways that you haven't been able to before. They're kind of insight into permits, it comes from making your body so sharp. And so crystal clear that you can you can convert right down to the level of vibration nature of sensory for phenomenon. Requires of mind that's been trained and ways that mind. Isn't. But at the same time, it's not necessary. It doesn't have to happen in that way. So many other ways that it can happen.

Now I not tired. More questions. Questions I'd love to answer you some more questions. We do out a little more. Much? Yes. What would you recommend, like you like to earlier off the cushion by of Christian group. Great nations feed time for, more with be practice and you got one year conversation. Right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's right. So let's Well, the most the most helpful practice of all is cultivating mindful awareness and sustaining that as much as you can during in the daily time. Alright.

And that's a... You're really your meditation develops mindfulness awareness. And as it develops it then is learning to apply it in your daily life. It it begins just like meditation which not forgetting what you're doing. Sound great. But no. I know when I say mindful awareness, you've heard mindful told responsible awareness probably thousand times. Can anybody explain exactly what it is? Being crescent. That's what's very commonly said being present means not being in the past the future. Right?

I say all alternative to the main president is being in a faster future. The being president is a very important part that. Because when your mind is lost and fantasies about the future and concerns about the past that doesn't exist anymore. You're definitely do you definitely don't have line for awareness. But is it enough just to be present? Alright does the other there's present of, like, conceptually in the mind like where I'm here and my thoughts but then the other part of this is being present in your body and in all aspects of yourself.

Yeah. I'll just point out to here. And actually this is an exercise to do as a part of walking meditation. To be fully in the present. How then try to take him everything that's happening and. And is that possible? Like being the observer what you name? Yeah. Be the observer to see if you can observe everything that's happening in the present moment. And I have your understanding in the kitchen, You're not thinking about what matt doesn't said on what I'm not going to do on your seeing with the That's so.

That's what i think but I'm asking you the question, is it possible to be aware of all sounds, all sensations all dental activity. No. It's not. It's a matter of fact and this is the value of doing this as as a meditation exercise is that you realized that the rich, the the present moment is so rich and full. That the bolster might can really take in at any here moment it. It's just a small piece and much. And it's it's not enough to be present. You have to be present to the right things. Because you can be present to hold their own thing.

As matter fact you. You get an argument with your partner and you're probably fully present. Why you're focusing On all the wrong. You're going to regret you're up. mindful full awareness involves more than they... Because, absolutely, you have to be present. Because that's where that's where everything happens. That's where the hell is at the present moment. But We... The attention gets focused on one thing. And there's a tendency, the more closely your attention is focused on one thing more everything else disappears.

Right? And normally, we have both we're focus on attention and we have awareness. And if you examine closely flow you'll find that peripheral awareness is a really important thing. Because it's going to determine what you pay attention to. The only way that your attention can be focused on those writing things. Is if you have a very powerful conscious awareness, this is the volume full awareness in fact. Yet. You have... If you have mindful full awareness, and my full awareness is going to... Awareness works a little differently the attention.

It takes things in in a more relational way. It's more holistic. It's more global. And attention isolate things. If you have strong mindful awareness, your mindful awareness will help to direct the attention where it's most valuable for it to be where it's most useful. So when we lose mindfulness we've be overly focused on one thing. And we lose a larger awareness. And as a consequence of that we we we they still be the present, but we've lost touch with the real reality the present because we're overly absorbed and one thing.

And so to develop my awareness means that you learn first of all, you learn the skill of not losing awareness, what attention becomes focused. And secondly, you have to develop a much more powerful consciousness. Because he only has some my consciousness to apply to awareness and to attention. And it all goes into attention there's no consciousness be awareness. And some things demand a lot of the attention to the demands or lot. I just So the only way that you can compensate for that is to generate a more powerful conscious stated line so that you can sustain the broader elimination of awareness even while focusing in.

That's what mine says. It's more than just being present. It's it's more than than just paid attachment. It is having an awareness that it directs attention so that you're paying your attention to what is most appropriate valuable? Yes. I it's my experience, I find that skill of knowing what the retention is there when you are dwelling in any boxes of my of cars Because they no. Whether it's a compassion stakeholder. Right? Because then where to get... It's not just being weird. Yeah. Just having that that sets of cheap and how.

That's. Yep. So practicing brown the hard keeping pre practicing the perfection, These are really powerful practices for developing mindfulness in your david life. If you hold in your mind the intention to just to keep the first five please curves? Now this this is going to make you far more light and you're going to pay attention and a i'm more productive useful way. So Good point here. The a path is not just meditation. It's only one three. And Virtue new and right view the right understanding or every bit is important about as meditation practice.

But they all work together. You know, it's... If you practice the pre and the perfection, you do so successfully with skills that have required in your meditation. And you create conditions that are working decent? That's right. And you create the conditions that are more can conducive to more powerful station as successful medication. So all together are in a very thoroughly integrated process. But the challenge with being mindful or daily right? Parallel perfectly the experience of meditation.

You first sit down and meditate, you put your attention on the meditation object. The next thing you know you forgotten what are you're doing. You get out of bed in the morning, and you say I'm gonna be mindful okay. The next thing you know it's three in the afternoon. You are quite about And and so the the parallel all the way along it exactly you're saying. You're gonna speak the same stages. Big gaps of mindless and sharp periods is mindfulness. And then you have longer periods of mindfulness shorter periods of my.

And, you know, it any parallels the whole process outside that time. You have to have the intention to be mindful. You use these tools like like or arms and like the with the pre perfection. Use these tools to guide you in being mindful because Okay. To be mindful. Or not like? Well. There's so much. So he's provide. These provide the guidance at your whole these ideas in your mind.

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