TCMC 5 May 2011 (1 of 2)
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afternoon I'm good to see you all here. This is... This is the first thursday of the month. Well not, I have said I would be providing instruction for beginning. Or at the same time giving an opportunity for people to get some ideas about how we can teach other people to meditate. Stuff. Is there anyone here that's the beginning medi? Never report. Well, I pretty scale. Pretty nuisance sense. Okay. That's January. There's nobody here that's never annotated but. K. Well, In that case, if you don't mind...
Sorry if you do. But if you don't like that we'll we'll use you and I'll ask you to tell me in terms of your relatively new practice. What do you think it would be most? Helpful to learn more about or to have explained or search. Let me tell you what I'm doing isn't maybe... Jeff. That's good let's see. What's backing. So I started at twenty minutes exactly. So now I am pretty much when I break up the stuff So now I'm all for commitments. And what I'm finding is I'm really able to help. Will be able to concentrate like this morning almost exclusively, not sensations of it.
Maybe three four and times when... Thoughts came out planning, you know, I need to give their there. Yeah. But So you finding us very i mean that's very helpful. I guess, So my first question is, it should like continue to ad time. Is there an optimal tag. Do I just keep doing this focus out of that on the breathing that something thing that I should start. Well, and and you said something about joy? You want one of the talks and aggregate heard that so and I love the six things that he say it do.
That's, you know, I do not be... I actually do those six things before I start to meditate you know, why do i meditate what's my goals at today? You happens is good here's what's happening in my outside world, and it's okay. You, Need to fix so safety limitations and that I guess, four if diligence. So we so, you know, realize that forty impacts is quite a long time, but just don't worry about the bob. Just just keep coming back out there that in the six months posture. So those are really really comfortable to be do those people even start the actual meditation.
So so the question is is there an option on longer and not that you is there the five minutes or company. Okay. Just to answer your question I would suggest If you're up to forty minutes. Keep increasing it to forty five or two an hour. If if you can in terms of the other things and you the other demands on your time, if you can extend it to an hour I would recommend, to continue extending it till you get to whenever set. K? And mainly in terms of of what are the pressures that are on on your timing?
If there's a lot of other pressures on your time, you find that difficult to do then forty five minutes. It's that are good. As far as the daily practice, forty five minutes to an hour. And of course, as you go along and azure motivation permits and other constraints turned that might look at possibly doing that twice a day. Or or meditating twice a day, you know, perhaps the the second set might not be quite as long. That's alright, but But advanced in that right. Okay? Yeah. If you could only pick timely number.
Would it be better to have two twenty minutes sits so one forty when that's it. Or words. Which would you go you know, if you can't. It would it would be better to have... If if everything else was equal, you definitely be better in two for two forty benefits six. Not too. Actually, that's true. You do better to do a forty minutes shit Because in the longer cities, you're... Yeah. This this kind of training effect that the extra time allows the kick. And the other thing is that the longer you said, it gives you the opportunity experience things that won't necessarily kind short period of time.
But if we were to take the other question, would it, would it be better and it's except for two hours every day or to do two one hour since every day? My answer would be the opposite I'd say the two one hours since every day probably be better. But to go back to what we just heard and... I'm sorry that I don't remember your name. Gotcha. Two. Tim? Jeff. Jill. Jim Patterson. Alright. I You described that in the course of a forty minutes that you... Alright. Able to be aware of the sensations of the breath, except for a small number in interruptions through four times.
Not that very that's very good. So what stage of the lieutenant stages is does that represent? Just ask of you too So third stage. Yeah. And what that be in early third stage or either would be middle stage late third stage? How many times did you say four five? Really use just four five and that's fine good. Yeah. It's only. It's really quite good. Yeah. Review ten stages? Sure. The the first stage is just establishing a process. They're regular doing it every day. For reasonable amount of time and really doing a part of establishing a practice is resisting the tendency when your minds a bit hunt unruly or whatever or just to succumb into the temptation to think about things or to day drain or something.
That's the first stage. The second stage because where you you're often forgetting what you're doing, forgetting the medication object. And it's happening in such a way that you intend to have that the mind wander that gonna go from one five to each another. And that in in that second stage, this happens quite frequently in those periods of mind wandering tend to be fairly long. And correspond correspondingly the periods when you're able to stay with the meditation object are fairly short. The third stage is where this is reversed the periods where if yeah when forgetting occurs, the periods a mind wandering either there's no mind wandering or periods of mind wandering are relatively short.
Can't they're in the periods when there's no mind wandering. Those periods are fairly lead long. K. And then the fourth stage is where you never really lose awareness of the meditation object. You never really lose awareness of the brow. Although, sometimes, there will be other how thoughts, distractions, so forth, which are actually more of the focus of attention they are the sensations of the red, but you haven't lost the sensations in the breath entirely. And because of the in the first stage, you have kind of a new problem on comes of, which is thoughts the seem really important and attractive.
And you're find when you're in that state where you're still where your mind is still more or less anchored to the notation object. Your ability to think clearly and to pursue these attracted interesting thing is very powerful. It's very attractive to do that. So you have to resist the temptation to to get caught up and and he's seemingly very meaningful slots. So to go through the whole standard the rest of the stage, very, very briefly like in the fifth stage you never have this experience of something else displacing the meditation object.
It's always as to focus attention. And you're you no longer have strong dull periods of sleep us. Welcome please come in and have seat. You don't have a periods of sleep as. Anymore. You are able to detect dull when is fairly mild and correct for it and your primary objective and the stage could completely overcome that tendency that we have in the course of sitting for forty five minutes for an hour. For the mind to gradually slip into a subtle state of dollars we want to. At the very least, keep the mind has been bright and clear an alert when we first sat down.
And preferably even to increase enhance that the the power of the conscious awareness that that is in our moment of experience. At then stage, there still there's still awareness a lot of distractions in the background. But there thoughts coming and going even though they're highly able to capture your attention. There's an awareness of bodily sensations and external sound and things like this. Which i'll have the tendency to trigger bots even though they're fleeting. So there is a lot of noise in the background.
You know the sixth stage you work on overcoming that. And when you are... When you have pre well overcome all that background, no I all those subtle distractions. That you reach the seventh stage. This seventh state, what your after is achieved the state of effortless concentration. Side here in the eight stage. The eight stage comes some very dramatic skills the ability to withdraw rate the blind from. External distractions and you can you can use the mind in different ways there will be a strong spot spontaneous right singer a pt usually accompanied by energy movements and the body, and things like that.
The eight stage you're working with that, when those have all subsided and fired it down and you're in the night States. In the night states, you're going to There's still... I feel like an energy, education, associated with the joy. That's a little bit of conflict with the... With the ability your mind has to be greatly. Focused. And that that develops into a tranquility and that defines intense state. That's just briefly going early the station. The gym has described somebody who's in the in the third stage merging get getting very close to being able to enter into the fourth stage.
Enter mind you that whatever stage you're at is a tendency to go back and forth between surface asia. So jim biden have days when he has a lot of interruptions and some significant periods of mind wandering and he might have some early days where his concentration seems to be be you know, he never... He's not... It does seem that he's ever lost the meditation object for the period of the entire set. So he's sort of moving back and forth over the this range, So what will happen is he will have more of those vacations where there her fewer or no interruptions.
And the big went he forgets what he's doing, the likelihood of it leading to sequence of mind wandering sequence will become... It'll become very rare. It'll become just about mail. That he'll be yeah Established in the fourth stage. Now in terms of what to do, at the stage your at jim? Is that you want to start paying a lot of attention to what's actually going on in your mind To the fact that okay. Am I'm aware of the sensations of my breath. But yes. Who's these thoughts really kinda being going.
You'll be kind aware of that the thoughts and the background, sometimes track your attention or sometimes they just kinda grab your attention. But that is... And when that happens, that's when the shift takes place where you're aware of the sensations of the breath but now that's in the background and this other decided to fall this other distraction, or it may be a pain your near or whatever. That's now that's now focus of your attention and the awareness of the the meditation object is in the background.
You ought to be aware of when that happens because that's the step that proceeds, forget. When you're when you went to hit had attention, grasp onto one of these distractions and remains rests on a log up that you forget all about the brand. And of course, if if the forgetting lasts long enough, the mind is going to. Tire of whatever the distraction was that caused the forgetting and move on to something thing helps and then something else, and that's for of the pipeline wire construct. So you really want to become aware of this process as the happening.
And so you will sorry. You will... What we'll bring getting to an end is becoming aware when one of these subtle distractions has become a gross distraction. Can you become aware of that that you can prevent it from leading to forgetting. So that's what that's what you want to do. Two things about that. You'll notice if you become focused to closely on the sensations of the ground. That... Oh it almost seems paradox but becoming to closely focus on the sensations of the graph. Is going to make you more vulnerable with something coming along snatch your attention, bleeding that you're forgetting and possibly like water.
And so as an antidote to that, is to... While you're focusing to on the sensations of the breath. Continue to allow the awareness of sensations and of thoughts in the background to be there. Yes. It's true. They are what present the danger of distraction. But shutting them out creates an even greater danger. Makes you more vulnerable to be misleading us or forget. So... And also this is quite cultivating the mindful awareness aspect that Is learning to keep your focus centered on one thing, while still allowing this larger wear to be there.
This other way of i to be there. Then the second aspect has to do with What this awareness is addressing? And of course this awareness is going to be taking here. This larger awareness is gonna to be taking external salads, bodily sensations and various thoughts. That arise and passed away, as I said sort of in the background. Right? You're familiar with that you been experienced that. So you would like to start cultivating and intros awareness, where that awareness is beginning to more and more continuously monitor just state your mind, whether it's more agitated or more peaceful or more dull or less.
So begin that process of not just being aware of sounds and sensations and thoughts that come and go but also being aware of the the state of your mind. And being aware of things like... But as I mentioned, that you'll experience the tendency of the thought comes up you'll experience that there's a tendency for the attention to be, you know, it'll go to something. Or there be a sound just sound us like, immediately your attention goes through that sound and you bring it back. So part of what I'm talking about the infrastructure of awareness is being aware of how potential responds to distractions.
Would anyone like to add anything to what I've said? Comment anything I say yeah. Which of those statements would you say? Would be equivalent to access consideration. Well, there are different There are different stages that can be used as access. You can use the sixth stage as accents. You can't read nothing before the six stage could really effectively be used exact same. But the six stage can and any stage past that. Andrew you're using it as access to the, the the stage that he uses has access is going determined.
How deep the quality of the Thomas that you enter into car. If you are using them as not more of an access to inside, the six stage is pretty much corresponds to what most Mah style with pasta and practices in North America are using as accents. So they would they would correspond to the point where you are beginning to experience very clearly rising and passing way. Answered the. Which kind of access did you have in mind? Me it with be more insight brackets. Access yeah. But I'll take either. Yeah.
Well let that's the wonderful thing. Is that when you have a quality your concentration after to six days, you can you can do practices that emphasize the mindfulness and rising insight or you can't cultivate John is, but the John are also an inside practice. They're are very powerful in inside practice as well. But you have to first before they become an inside practice, you have to acquire it to skill the Job. So. Yeah. Take the either one it's good. Yes. You know things at the the but here something like Tom I added lot.
Kind of compassion. So what... So what I'm seeing in the hawaii is it's very so very very effective. Concentration method. But this whole other brown with the heart and compassion. How does outfit fit that? It worked. Is that is that a separate meditation? Or is that something you just do during today? Is a lost than that. Oh, it's that's a very good question. It is a separate... It is a different style of practice. But loving kindness or or mental meditation is also a practice that leads to strong concentration.
So it's really highly compatible with doing getting over concentration practice on the breath. And combining of is very effectively. And also you mentioned that I had recommended cultivating joy. And one kindness medication is a really good way to cultivate the particular states that might that are conducive to the rising of joy. So it'd be very good thing to to have a practice and involve center drugs the because. And Tom Le is... It's it's a tibetan version. We're really basically doing the same thing as that as the that meditation in a different way, but goals saying that the the mental faculties that you're invoking are the same.
Yeah. Until about a second ago. I thought that the joy was a state of mind. And the phrasing that you have employ, you you talked about things that lead to a state of joy, which which suggests pre states and and that can go on forever. Think of way. They are closely related states that are really conducive to... As the joy is the save mine. Okay. Okay. And of course, If we were line up, if we were buying find a bunch of different states of mine and one month next to each other. The boundaries between that would be entirely artificial and to try.
Right? Right? There's really more a continuity doing from One, you know, but the state where your your pipeline is experiencing strong feeling love well wishing for others compassion for the suffering given. That that is a state of mind that is very it that is relatively close to very conducive to joy. So just leasing yourself on caring will propagate into these other gradient joys. That's well. That's pretty nifty. It's a there's a really interesting principle here that S Gave captured perfectly a long time ago.
And you said, the total of all was suffering in the world is due trying to make ourselves happy. With all happiness and the world is due to try make hug happy. And this country is something that... Everybody knows but but very few people practice but. If you want make yourself feel good, one of the best things you can do is do something for somebody else make somebody else you will experience this parts hearing. Somehow this is the way this is my somehow, our brains are wired in such a way that that kind of fall and activity triggers some feelings of a pleasure of our own.
And so, yes. If you do... If you do these loving kindness practices, it's gonna be much easier to generate joy. Anything else we've kind of come to the time through the sip. So wondering anybody else any comments so things are make shape. Yeah. We raised something that I wanted to say. I wanted to make an analysis that follows with what you just said perfectly. So this might be a good time. I'm a member of a group vehicle through the medication in the prison in the Area Douglas, and I'll group seems to...
Well, everybody seems to be leaving for the summer and we really need more people to leave medication and prison, if we're going to be able to continue beat it. So should anybody be interested in sharing? And and don't know it's very moving experience to go your forbidden and offer the gifts of medications you, please kindly speak with me drink the. And I tell you anything to answer any questions you might have about possibly doing that yourself. Most of us go once a month or something will go more favor the back.
So please copy if you have any new interest. Yes. Absolutely. If if you... Met all can, I recommend. I I did that for a long time my meditation into to prison and doug. A wonderful experience. Very inspiring very enriching. You know, I I would become so elevated that as a result of working with those men there. And they they're the appreciation and the responsiveness that you get from now. I assume you're having in the same experience. Are you in the maximum of security or our security and? Well, it's not maximum.
Okay. I was teaching in the maximum security the guys and and do they're never gonna leave or late might being transferred to a different prison. You know, and Well, it... It's wonderful. It's worth if you can.