The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC 24 March 2011 (1 of 2)



Automated transcription

How's your practice going? What should be talking about? Yes. So I've been getting the citrus my last few weeks. And I have a lot of questions. I'm wondering if this is an okay time to ask a suit question or if it's better to reserve this for her packets. Well, first let's try it out. So I've been largely kinda disappointed reading the sutra It feels very much like any other. There's a lot of, you know, magic buddha being a magic guy and characters and support for antiquated social rule, you know, why they're subscription there's like, there's some great stuff in there, but at least my reservoir the vast majority of stuff that I don't believe in or agree with.

And I'm wondering what the relationship is between the teachings of the living buddha and what it is that we get here. Yes. Your experience this is... I think what happens so often when and and educated western or who has no previous background and and buddhism and besides you reading sutra they have an experience like yours such just there's a lot of really good stuff here, but there's a whole lot of other stuff, which is and when do you think about it not all all that stuff it's together very well.

So you you have to understand buddhism became her religion, a huge religion and it took on many forms. And and and... Each time i took on an unemployment and sort of dis simulating well how what's actually we born to some other religion? What would what we get now today, those sutra the the Poly cannon are probably... Well, they are the closest that we have to let the buddha action we said that they have been extensively modifying huge sections redacted and huge pieces added it from other sources.

And then did you go to other versions of lewis County. The the additions and the deletions are even greater. So as matter fact one of the ways that scholars can. Track some of the additions and deletions is by comparing these different versions. And then it becomes quite quite a apparent. Certain. You know, certain things that have and added or removed. So the Buddha did not start a religion. The religious aspect of it is. And as it became religious, convert into it where all kinds of pre religious beliefs.

That I think are probably where a lot of the the conflicts complex contract. But their parts of those teachings, which are just, you know... So obviously, right on. That that that they're not problematic. And the more experience that you have and your own practice and more insight your part. Then it becomes easier and easier to sort of discern because there's the parts of those teachings with fits so well with our experience and... And actually, you're dealing what the buddha taught him himself.

He said, don't accept anything on authority, which structure. I the the column tray it seemed great. Then in the next twenty five. We're not very good at all. Great. So you don't set accept things on us already. Including the fact that they're script and have been revered for many century as well kinds of people what basis do you fix that somehow. And he pointed out some very clear. First of all, why he stress in the columbus is that these teachings should have a beneficial effect on you. And likewise, the actions and behaviors and speech that are arise from them should be beneficial and not harmful.

So if that's one for criteria. But he also said it should make sense to you. It should make the sense you. And the other thing related to that is it should be consistent with your experience. So if you go and practice in the ways that you described, and how you should have consistent results. When something doesn't fit with that, and those are the things that you should suspect and and have least set aside that there's always the possibility that something doesn't make sense to you because your your own understanding is not quite adequate.

So you can set it aside and may you come back to it later. Or that something doesn't fit with your experience that for perhaps to your practice hasn't developed to point where you're running have those experiences. But that is really the most important thing. Is to use it as a guide working very closely in conjunction with your own with your own thinking and experience. Of the world and the interactions with other people and what you see happening and. Then it's very effective. That's guy. Yeah.

Hi You. You I... you know, the idea that the Poly canon is this safer thing that, you know, you have to accept every word of it. And many many booths what they does not hold up to scholar the analysis at all scholars goes through a ct. They'll find the whole section, which just plain doesn't fit. It's a different style. Sometimes the original Poly, you know, is dramatically different different tenants, different person things like that. But the most important thing, is that the the ideas is instruction contained within it.

Don't fit. So you have to you have to be aware that. You have to be aware that this... This is, you know, this is not something to divine dispense absolutely pure source that you can tape was out a grain installed. That being said though there is so much a value I spent a lot of time reading the decision. Yeah. You know, it it's a really good feeling like when you ring something in the sutra and and it it does fit with your experience, and it does make sense to you. And if you even better feeling when i only that's what They saying, makes sense since fit was your experience now.

But get holds within a a clear direction for where you don't next where you gonna sport now. That's the most wonderful thing about it at all the whole Yeah. Is it gonna help me get the alignment? It is. We. A couple of suckers and So I have the the experience that Us is describing where... Well... And and the one you're describing where much of it was like, boom like a boring or, like, just patent? But there are a few things that that red. That really did feel like it changed my mind frame in in the right direction.

But... Yeah. The part percentage wise it was not very big, but certainly work we're approaching through the rest of it. And up. For everyone, too. It's. They're very hard to read. And because you're originally orally transmitted there's so much repetition. You know. It's... And it takes a lot of discipline team get through. And my own experience, you take a time... Oh, sorry. You got something. You know, i ask myself to speak. Why am i doing this To be a a lot work. And I think, you know, come the same a personal field.

Mh. But. And then I asked every teacher can find. What's the latest short time. Black. What do you know? That will help me get there quicker. So what you need though? As far as a short, that will help you get there quicker. Interesting. I never actually Part by answering that specific question. I think, you know, when I reflect on the way I skis, a lot of it, is you have to have a pretty good idea of where there is. What I try to communicate is and how you have understanding of what the goal is and adding how now how you get there then and explanation of how it is the The those those things about the way we are at least most of us are as human beings.

Which are standing in the way of us getting there because that's what you need to focus on. You need to understand. What i? What is not working? What why all human beings aren't automatically and light Right. What is there about us that's getting in the way of the understanding of the realization? That will free us from suffering and make us be beings compassionate and and like Well, it is understanding. It is it is a wisdom. It is knowledge. And what stan and way knowledge is this perception. You know, I used to teach physiology and students with wrestle with physiological problems.

He wouldn't be able to understand thing. Explaining explaining the way cell membrane potentials and action. Yeah. Eighty percent the class can follow me, and I understand that they just have to go back and work through it a few times themselves, and then they can reg that's required not understand. And that is the other twenty percent. So that just... you know, it's some quite a bright just keep thing and they up against it over over again, you know, it doesn't work for them. And whenever I two those things, they I I always knew what would happened.

Sooner later, I would find the idea, the idea the concept what are they had that was wrong that was in the way. So they couldn't follow the understanding it. And this is what gets it's safe. It's the... It's the wrong idea it's the delusions. That you have accepted as true that are keeping you from saying things way they really are they're becoming on wake bin. So the biggest shortcut, the best shortcut is from my point of view is to. Has clear and idea because you can... Where you're going? I suppose, you might put that what would be life to already be.

And what... What the... What the bad is what the terrain is between here and there. And then what are the things that are holding you back and holding it down? No. You can get that from the sutra. But you have to have a particular kind of mine and you have to have a lot of patience. And you can get that from teachers, but you have to have fantastically fine tim. Bullshit shoot me here. And you can get that through practice too, that you have to do a water practice, and you have either have to have good guidance or a lot of luck or combination of those.

But you can use all of these things in, you know, to to you get there. Second. Sorry. This that... Did is that... It's just do you like the? Yes? Okay. Good. Can i go on? Yeah. Well, and yes. There are a couple other people wanna say. Maybe I'll listen it them to come back to you. Yes. I just had a comment which is that if you want something really badly, she want to be enlightened so badly that you crave it and search for it. Isn't that in and of itself? Going to delay your enlightenment. It is.

Have a certain plan. But if if you'd want that more than anything else, it's gonna get you, like, sixty or seventy percent of the way there then you're gonna have to start loosening up and letting goes then. But he'll you need that to start. You know. And and that's right. You you you can... Oh, well, there's no such thing as like prisoner. You will never become the like. Enlightenment will occur him this psycho physical entity that you are. When when the person, the attachment to itself says aside.

Now. Does... And also the transformation that makes the speed kind of person that we wanna big involved being free from every sort of craving desired inversion. So does that name that what that desi happiness desire and kinda writing but desi wisdom them. Siren could become I find of why is a compassionate other person that you imagine? And thinking of yourself as being the one of the comes at. Does that mean that that's a bad thing? No. There is a point where which you have to give that up, but that's where you start from.

And that's the only thing that's gonna really get you going to the point where you get to where you have to... And if you and as you get to that point, it's not so hard as it sounds. Because all the way along, the more you learn, though they, you know, that the the bonds that attach to you to those views are being weakened throughout the process. So when the time comes start letting go, they're not so hard to let go. It seems it seems like a paradox docs. You know. You but it's not... You have to desire in enlightenment to get to the point where you can get out of.

Right. Agree site? I call to to it's isn't you that the experience of the process diving into something where you open up your mind, it long if you thinks the whole thing. If that wouldn't have work from me, I would stop immediately, I don't quit golden enlightenment, but I care if it's working during the house, I'm I'm choosing. If that person is not working i I found it. But if it works, I don't care how long it takes. I don't care whether... Result just because it works right now from you. And is there the process had in?

Yes it is. And that's a piece advice that I given to number of people but you know, there's so many different traditions and teachers and things like that. And people wonder whether they're falling the right path. And a piece advice saying gift it's making your if it should be making your life better continuously. The more you practice it, the the barrier you're life times if it's not, you might seriously question that perhaps that would be better. Sure. You. So medication versus? Notation and then sutra and studying six.

Yeah. I always wanna know what to do. And our practice within when the page. And what's in way is the stability other? That's go I am. It's to increase the stability of my attention. And I don't care that much what you do after that because Haven't done that yet. K. And so I don't really need Su I don't really read too much about the steps past three or four or five. Because I have this very clear app. And for me, I guess, we'd like Tim. Like, why read the sutra is it seems like this kind of knowledge and understanding of so deep that just reading something and oh, now I see how completely not everything.

I I just can't see So I I mind. I'm knowing a whole set of. I should be spending time with No. No Not at all. But they're made very well that time we're just the right thing for you to do is to make the decisions and have to call back and to read the right because there's so many of them. It you know, take for forever reread them. So he needed to focus on the right must get you yep. If you reach your point where that is what you need. But the practice that practice is i go so hard is to say that without the practice, you'll never be able to understand the and you'll never be able to sort week from the shaft, and sutra.

So to focus on the practice again with this absolutely right Some people might be... You know, other people who are already intellectually dispose. And my preferred to study the seizures. Mh That's fine. Yes studying message citrus frame them to the point where it creates them the desire to to realize the brings the catherine to do the practice with that. A lot of people have look at them at all. Now go back to Town. Hey. So years. You maybe heard about S? Oh good. Yes. Very fine. I was literally at it too far from there.

And so they do a lot of his talks. Many times. We're fine. He would ask the audience, how many people here would like in enlightenment? And probably about ninety hundred seven degrees here. The other one shift didn't no longer moving on back. Day would say, how many would like might if they knew was gonna turn her my upside down hey roughly about hack with. And now it's always puzzle. Me. And I was having a spear rock doing a one day with him. And he gave me one shortcut time. And a shortcut to lose controls.

Yeah if you lose control, You don't have anything fall back on? There's no have. There's no conditioning. You're just stuck at press moment. And then it became my mind for a long client was losing control. It doesn't stick. You know Yeah. It's like my meditation practice, have see be mindful of what I'm not in control. When I am. So I can step back from that. But it doesn't stick? One day they funny the next day I'm just smack them and What? Other than more sitting. Right. Thank you. And what you represent so that things like those those peak that you pick up along the path.

Stick. More practice, but also understanding that better. Because you see getting out control is there's way to have an experience with in sort respect. Is positive and beneficial and resembles what happens if you far inside. But it's not the same thing. As says. Because the very notion of getting up control seems if there's something he is getting out control and a that somebody he will actually had control. And and all of that still isn't. So what you doing is your to get up control, just play a little game that can help you understand, but it's not it's just a little game.

And all i could do is to help you understand. So the only way to get to review and get up control is to realize that you never had start with. And then from Mayor to realize that there was everybody, there was never anybody that could had control anyway. And those internet practice from that viewpoint. You know, all of these different ways in practicing are they're approaching us in a different way. It was practice of coming to a still. You know, this is place, which you can find, maybe you've touched on before and you can cultivate the ability to go to where there is just this conscious awareness That is totally unaffected by everything that's going on now.

And as your approach staff, first, you feel still inside well all those stuff going on around there. And then they're still that they what is separate from the still becomes the body itself. And then what separate from stillness becomes even the line. And and you get to that point of this really refined still. Now you're on the verge, of realizing the truth that all of those things that you attached to as part of yourself some being, some entity entities could be in control or outlet control or give or gift control or forget to give up control.

You know, you're a you're in a place where all of a sudden It's obvious and all of that is nonsense sense. So that's that's just there's there are many different practices in different methods. And all what they're all trying to do is they get you place where you have some experiences that puts you face to face with what's always been the truth anyway. In such your way that your your brain and your mind start to incorporate that. So practice but practice with understanding. And any practice you do works really at a certain point, but you're pointing through this not doing the child anymore, then do need to question?

You need to question either the practice or your understanding of the practice, you may need to move to a different practice. But you you may need to have you may have need to have a deeper understanding of how the practice is actually working. What's a reasonable time frame of a judgment? Like, if your practice is you know, not doing anything for a week, then it seems like that be kind of flip change it Yeah. That's. Yeah. What do you think I was a time for. Well, I think it would be mistake too.

Right. You know, put a number of values like hash number days weeks, months things like that. But I think this sort of goes back to what I said earlier after trying time out. If if it's not moving you forward, If you don't have a reasonable sense over a reasonable period of time, you know not a week, but that is moving you forward then And and even, you know, some of the ways it can be moving you forward or subtle. If you find that your practices, is making it easier for you to deal with difficult situations in your life and you don't even know how that's still progress.

If you find what if give other your examples, But there a lot of different ways. That the subtle ways to your practice can give provide them. But yeah. Well, yeah. Not so very long ago. I was quite convinced that that listening to you and and and practice seeing that in the new ways that you've have suggested, were really speeding me along at at at great speed. And and this sounds really silly, but it popped into my head about a week ago, that when I really stopped and looked, that one single day of my life has gone from sunrise to sunset.

As I planned or expected, that one, there's always some interject of that... Oh, this wasn't what was on the list and it might be mild or it might be severe, but it it dumbfounded me. That I had come all this way and only last week noticed that. Air then, you come up with this... If it's moving you in the right direction, that's positive thing. And I'm looking back at Well, I... I'm certainly moving, but I am now completely confused. I feel confusion of... Am I going... In any particular direction at all?

I'm going? There's there's no question I'm. But I have completely lost assurance that there is there is directional to it. Yeah I'll give you a brief answer. And then maybe we can talk about this after. I I never said that any day in your life would go the way he wanted and expected. What will... What what I would expect to happen is that you're a lot more right with the fact that it doesn't than you previously work. At that's the direction. Yeah. What, like I said, it was only startling that I had failed to notice.

And, you know, that's that's really it. I know you didn't promise that it would go as expected. I know that. But I thought I have actually, I'm glad you said next that that you didn't notice. There's something that I should point out. I've noticed this myself and and as you change, you you're often on aware how you changed. Something will happen. And suddenly, it will it will create the contrast between the way you are now and the way he used to be. And then you realize how much she changed. But to do norm is just the norm.

And you you... There's the tendency fee to take it for granted unless you actually reflect or unless some circumstance comes up to to make you aware of the kind of changes. So it's really important to point out out while you're looking to see whether your practice is making improvements and you're like, remember that that you you you can't just trust in intuitive a feeling like a, oh well, I really change a lot. You might have to look over that to state your too reflection. This pat. Just very quickly.

With it's back tucker and what Crystal say. He said I'm a sure few minutes ago to had asked about the control thing. But do realize there's no, you know, one in there that's falling. Which she's really connect with what we've just saying. Because it seems like we... It's like a net. I mean, we There there's not this in here that's making the changes that it's happening. It's like this incredible week. That's occurring. This this universe life and the changes that are ins and brought into play is this incredibly large web?

And as I look across my life and my friends and everything it seems like That's the case. It's just this amazing leave. And and how even coming into meditation? Even choosing the spot And then the different little the little... When you say, go post along the way. Our our I almost not me ins. I mean, they are, but they aren't. There's some sort of interchange happening. Between whatever is in here. What is it here isn't it really in here, But but it's an amazing dance. Yeah.

You can edit the title and description of this talk to help us organise the content and make it better searchable.

Edit talk