The Mind Illuminated archive

Stronghold 20 March 2011


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Should we talked about. Yes. I do have a a question of... I said I read that book by bernadette, the non who reached the sense of self. And I I have a list of questions, but I just have one, I can remember right now that I wanted to check with you. She seemed... Before she had this experience, she seemed to think that she was going to experience joy, like an overwhelming sense of joy and compassion and happiness when she reached self and she found that that did not happen at all. I guess whatever she reached was agreed like, but she doesn't really describe it as much.

Mh. And so I was... I was kind of surprised. I guess Yeah. I just kinda surprised. I I thought that maybe when you're reaching yourself, you do reside in some sort of happiness. Alright. You do. And and happiness. Yeah. I I I had to read me back at night myself and just exactly what she said. One of things is really significant is that she's trying to interpret a her experience in terms of her background and understanding. And that affects the language that she uses something like that. And she really is describing two stages.

The book that you was that the experience of mask health was it the journey to cell? Hear. Okay. So which i I I think that journey to know self is probably corresponds more or less to what. Called string. Where else it experience with or cell? The structure continued journey. And certainly, when you yeah, when you realize that well, there's this two price when you realize that the self is an illusion, you have to adapt to that pendant pandemic That can be discomfort to some degree. And on. What are the kind of practices you're doing and what you're understanding is.

But it is a liberating experience. That results and short term and very intense blissful experience. But a long lasting thing, the long lasting effect is that anytime do you find yourself sort slipping into their old habits of thinking and you're finding unhappy and it's like you just you you can't go too far in that direction now part my doing? This is you gave to us. And then and then you come back to that place of joy. And so at that point, there is... You know, it is a place to try. You you you feel about the feel compassionate.

You see the world is a beautiful place and no longer to enjoy some is no longer threatening because you don't cling to it to the same degree. They're still craving and they're still creating a cleaning, but you don't cling to it to the same degree. So I really... Yeah. I I would like to... I I'm gonna read much she says and we'll see we'll i get to together and talk about that then. So there is joy present the phone it didn't happen. Enhanced joy. And as does you go there Let's let's speak of pleasure.

The pleasure associated with Joy is A fairly sorry pleasure. The pleasure that the the crude exposure is just simple sense treasuries. The pleasure that's associated with joy that is the result of things that happened external events. Relationship with somebody else. That kind of joy. That's a very real joy this associated with a very strong pleasure. But that is also a fairly pre pleasure and it's a very fragile easily lost. And as a matter fact, even next with that pleasure is the fear of its laws.

And and often don't it. It's going be blocked. The joy that comes in meditation is pure form and the pleasure that you experienced as a part of that is more refined. But still relatively speaking his crude. Right. It's it is a It it's a more stable pure pleasure because it's not dependent upon external circumstances over which you have no control. It is still subject to passing away into causes and condition. When you move beyond that there's a level of pleasure that's associated with tranquility serenity the peaceful content that.

And this is a much more refined kind of pleasure. Much more satisfying much more satisfying like you experience it because it isn't... It isn't subject to any loss so easily and it's not subject to anything. External. That's. What a kind of of from a teaching i buddha where it goes through to chill. And describes the different degrees in pleasure. You know, this just sense pleasure than the pleasure that's associated with the first few owners. And then the the pleasure the the third genre is more fine.

And then the pleasure. I don't think I don't know fourth China is associated not only with, but with is is much more refined measure. So I guess what I ask is, can you relate to this idea that the of a much more refined version in a pleasure beyond what's associated with joy? Mh. Okay. Alright. Then the this the same progress of refinement that, you know, this is restarting using where it's like bliss, things like that. Because. We don't have in our by. Terms to distinguish between these different.

These different forms. Pleasure happiness. So like say ask him I was have eighteen names for snow. No. You're we're not that's familiar the subtle differences and and pleasure and happiness to have a suitable of names if they're a lot fine and stable craziness. Right? Right. Which with the stream entry and then a higher paths, there is a more refined sorry bliss at happiness associated with these. So So in terms of where you're going side a place that that's not in place if that is It it's actually a place of a sublime happiness and credit pleasure.

But it's not a it's outside a place that's pleasure us. It's just it's a much more sublime for. Yeah. That helps because i I almost read it as if for. Like And and that's why I wanna to read and see but she's saying to see if we can get a them more more specific interpretation. Advice she's saying. And it's very important where she's too and and where she's saying that. Remember she's coming from a point of you where you immortal. Soul is the the the value that's been so much a part of your thinking for all of these years and everything.

And sold was settled. And then through their practices, she's arriving at a place. Where that's all disappearing. And this this completely disconcerting. And So the way she's gonna react that is gonna very different than somebody who is coming from a place where. I can see that my sense self and my attachment to self from thinking of myself separate from everything else is the cause of my problems. And i'm trying to get place where I don't have that anymore. If you're gonna. Your mind is going to go through a different set of processes when you write and and experience something that.

That's compared to if you feel like you're losing the one thing that you thought listen austin for you. Well in a sense that's true everybody. We all think that myself is the most important saying had. If the doctrines that we've been following had labeled it or decline and morning soul and now you're losing it. That's gonna be harder to take than that's the doc trans following say, this is the concept problem. Saying. I'm try hitting your point where I'm not so attached. I by the benefit of people who haven't made that but bring at robe.

During Robert... Yeah. Sorry. Should done that beginning. Or have robert sees a catholic not. It was attack right now. Is she And she went through a series of experiences without really any guidance because they recap church doesn't really have much guidance for people who are undergoing the kinds of experiences that she did. And and in fact our practice is are intended to bring us to So she had to go to libraries and sunny she read Theresa john cross who also went through these kinds of experiences, but that was really her source of guidance as he has tried to interpret that, but she has written three books about that call the journey between herself.

The experience of himself and what itself. What itself is sort of her philosophical ago interpretation of what I this is that she happened that she that happened to her this. She answered her. But she has quite independently a any guidance except these writings of these but the saints very little well out than that has managed to go through is this process gaining wisdom and insight and the direct experience out the dissolution of the cell. Why stages is very similar to. But the what peterson talks about way to buddha talking about.

Very interesting hunter. Yes. I just wanted to add I read the replay after you did the teaching down the Jonas, and just what you said about the John seemed much more interesting study and to work with than what she was doing because she... And he said, keep them a different if you the background, and she decided She she looked to see she was trying to see people who had had to experience after she had it. She couldn't find anybody. And so she decided to write about her experience. And I I think that would be much in my opinion much better for us to be working with the pajamas than to be spending so much time this.

I we I think about a year ago or so And then after that, I decided it, you know, what's very interesting, but see they have so much to do with it. We were doing that just my opinion about it. But It very interesting to read because she does tell about detail. But but as I remember after she had this no self experience, which was so terrifying and grateful for her. Then she said she had you twenty years in the in the marketplace. She called it before she could get it and it's part of it. Yep. And and that's an important part of you know, this am I'm telling you about the...

Is to understand that, yep. She was a nun she with through all of this. She reached a certain point where she had gave up her valves. My back of the room got married. Yet spent twenty years in the market place. Alright. So... And that's really discussed in the second book the experience. I so. I think that's the one I wrote. The second bucket. I've had the first one yeah. Alright First. And, yeah, the the Has a way practicing. You're you're far less likely to experience the the terrifying aspect of the loss of so the practices a cultivate summertime, strong time of time.

But you know, you got it's part of the definition of sabotage times the tranquility and e that develops. These allow you to go through these transformational experiences without it being. So traumatic. The these these dry mindfulness practices are inside practice is that some people that result in the same sort of dark night the soul that of the cross described and the running Robert's experience. But if you do the settlement practice, if you were going to a bond major practice first then you do it properly, which is to first develop some of the top and then bank is not on mud.

You're going to have the joy and act energy, so it's not going to be such a frightening terrifying. Mind wrench to experience as it's totally transporting and better experience, but doesn't also so much psychological trauma. The same thing with the job. Fused the job as had type practice. It's going to be much easier to realize these truths to have these truths. Penetrate to the deepest level of your psyche understanding. But it's not painful. Well I think is really important about learning to Robert's experience and her writings about.

Is it... I think it can help deep our understanding what is going on here of this particular phenomenon that that has been repeatedly discovered in different cultures. But we know what it in most detail. Probably buddha. And everything that we know about it is, you know, Other than our own object experience, everything that we know about it. Is strongly flavored by the the cultural experience because that is his time and then all of the eastern cultures that who has been transmitted through. So to get such a clear and lucid account of the same phenomenon from Somebody from a completely different culture it's the sort of thing where you light you over overlap the two and everything that doesn't match you realize isn't really important.

Drove the head out, But where where is to line out then, you know, that that that's that's the most important poor part of that and so we greatly increases understanding. To become to to reach the stages and the enlightenment, but you go through and experience, which gives you profound understanding. But at the end of the experience you're back in the world and your ordinary mind kicks in and it tries to explain to itself what just happened. And all of the terms it has to explain what to happen is what you everything you had learned out to the time you happiness in experience.

So area light being trying to communicate about this experience is going to give a version of it. That comes through the filter and through the lens of their prior experience in background. Right So... And that's what makes really confusing because you can hear accounts from two different people. And you scratch your head down want that doesn't match up. And it's truth. But the value is you can take these non matching descriptions and you find really they coincide inside they're area refreshing.

The deeper recruit that's less distorted by the pre concepts and perceptions. That's why I think we bring that progress was a good idea studying but approaching it from that vantage point. Here is here's a unique interpretation because it's filtered through the Christian catholic mindset, but she didn't even have any guidance from really if i'm christian your church and understanding you what that happened to her. And then she later began to explore the religions, and and, oh, yes. She had thought buddhism was some, you know, but then she saw this quotations from the buddha and then she thought.

Oh, not. You about this too. What you do about this too. Yeah. Thanks. I'm just wondering if there's anything we can learn from the causes and conditions that might be useful. There's obviously other sets of causes and conditions other than practice and buddhist. They can lead to these constraints. If you yes. Absolutely. But looking at the other causes. Not even just others and buddhism and within buddhist and there something many dramatically different sets of causes and conditions for bringing this about.

And I think that that's one of the most important things that we can do in terms of making this more universally accessible effective. We have to look at all these different causes and conditions. And compare them and understand that Because if you look at buddhism in the world today, compared to when it started. Buddha went around was able to express this teaching in a writing that people in a very short time, we're able to achieve realization that needs achieve stream entry and then the higher paths become amongst the several thousand disciples is during his lifetime.

There were I'm not sure how many but there were many hundreds for sure of our time. And perhaps. Even thousands and and accounts with the sutra that people achieving stream entry and the higher paths, you know, right and left the whole time. We compare that with today, and we have all the different forms of videos and terror and Zen and Chime and and the different threads to buddhism Within each of these, we find only a small number managed to achieve goal handled. This is a... This was a gift to all of mankind.

It wasn't something that was for one in a million or one and ten thousand something like that. That's not what For Buddha brought to the world. Something for the rare exceptional individual. That's what it's become. You know, the somebody has attained any degree in enlightenment it's like my god. You you know, you're you're so different from the rest of was all we can do is is bravo at your feet because it's just nonsense sense. Because the buddha was, you know, bringing everybody to this level, and that's what we need to get back to.

So from between the time of the buddha and today when we have all these different forms of buddhism, but all these dramatically different methods of techniques. We've lost something. And I think the path to finding that again. Is to... It it is to try to understand the underlying process. What is it? That we're it is really happening in our mind to they do this fact?? What are we actually trying... Where are we actually trying to go? Not get flower at a oracle language. Because, you know, the who buddhist books shelves in a bookstore, are sag with the weight of all the flower in Metaphor Language.

That doesn't quite tell you how I get from jerry there. This is what we need to do though is we need to forget that kind of language and get to the kind of language that helps people get frontier there. And I think we're looking at these different methods and not from a super superficial level like Oh, well, this is sort like that and maybe if we can combine those, maybe in work a deeper level of understanding. When people when to tibetan do this kind of practice, what do they actually psychologically what's happening in their mind?

And when the terror buttons do this kind of practice, what's happening in their mind? And is there a deeper understanding that if we grasp it we're not chained to either one of these methods because now we know what both methods are trying to create when both members are trying to lead to. So now we can be creative you know, we can we can do things more effectively. That's That's where I feel. But yes. What the causes and conditions. And I always love it when say Virtue tube is the vehicle. Is I like that.

Yeah. So... You know, the there is is a deep understanding of cost conditions. That is pretty accessible. Gets inherent within the dark. That's what the dha part is supposed to do. Is to provide you with a theory behind practice. And Pretty issue is the vehicle liquidation. It is the absolutely essential and indispensable vehicle. Because the problem is we are trapped. Like the delusion that our might generates. Our mind generates that delusion because evolution, it was a functional delusion. So respect it.

But we have the capacity to go beyond it. The delusion has to do with our attachment to self and our attachment to a belief that the projections are my makes, and mean we're all are real have that that misunderstanding that of that puts us in a position where we're always paying ourselves against the world to satisfy needs and avoid any kind of pain suffering. And the logic of that is that we are going to behave in ways are harmful distracted exploit so so if our goal is to overcome the the ignorance, that's that's down road.

Our mind is not going to even be able to approach that unless we deliberately stop acting out of the division. And so living in a moral ethical way. Keep the pre ups and practicing the perception. Practice and virtue is an absolutely essential first step. You can meditate. So you've got call on your nearby. But if you're not living if you're not attempting to live from a place of virtue, translate that really from a place in virtue sounds like kind of a really religious spiritual thing. But what you're really doing.

When you live from a place the versus you're you're stopping the constant re portion enforcement of the delusion by acting it out over and over again by minute hour by hour early day. You've got to stop that before the changes can take place in your mind that are gonna on you to overcome the delusion and the. So so breach who is absolutely essential. Have the understanding the understanding of the understanding that somebody body in the for noble truth so the whole pound as you know, that's all about how we get from here better.

We stopped through virtue sure we stopped be. Can waive the constant reinforce this solution. Now we start to unravel the division. And now the practice can really be effective. Because the practice is going to bring about who... And we're going to develop the skills all piece mind that's gonna allow us to apply those skills and all music light. In our day of right and the truth that's been out there all over time is going to emerge and the delusion that has been hiding again all the time he's my on the way.

Is that? That's the causes and conditions. My concern is that you take the group people. These disarmed people in alignments, they waited through It generally let's say less aggressive in general. They're already acting out less. They might even have a problem assertiveness or some point. We put on top of that and emphasis and morality which sort of encourages that got bless. And I wonder whether you end up with a huge shadow of anger and difficulty stuff like that. You know, I just wonder if they're, you know, was pretty nice to start with.

And i I I mean, I I don't know where I'm going with this, but I just... I'm I'm curious that maybe what a lot of us who find ourselves here at more with is, you know, actually action and assertion and saying notice to certain things and you know, that that we already invite the morality pretty early and it's... Even though of course it could be perfect perspective, it's kind of a superficial version. But I don't know. I I don't have a firm clear thought on that, but there's just something. Sorry are you kind of getting out?

Buddhist are self selected, what about all the other people? Now again, I'm worried about buddhist right now. Learning other. Okay. Well, an interesting thing about Buddhism and scott, And in terms of who that attracts. Is that... Yes. There has to be amongst other things it has to be a dissatisfaction. You know, you have to have a strong sense though that life isn't working as well as I think it could. To have the motivation to look into buddhism in the end. What provides us this a wide variety of people.

Some come went into the spectrum who are those who because the they fought about these things and, you know, it's it's sort of a intellectual twice but well this got to be a better answer. It's got be deeper true. So they're tied with isn't. At the other answer of the people, that they is so much suffering in their life that that they're the desperate and so Buddhism offers them a release suffering and so they they go to. So this is whole spectrum of people that come... But what you're absolutely right is compare that with the people that are not attractive to.

Aggressive intolerant people who are convinced it. The path to happiness is through material wealth. And gifts through hard work based succeeded and accumulating a certain degree of material help. They feel like they're better than than other people. They're attracted to a different kind be attracted to. One of these religions that basically preach and tolerance judgment. Right. Or they'll go into a you know, I the focus of there life will be something that's non. I think Nip is concerned that Buddhist you know, there's like, the two nice...

There's already nice people on that maybe they're gonna be... Like anybody needs to worry about noise. Or how it... I follow what you were saying a well. But it's not clear in my mind So... Oh, I know. I saying something not that. Could my... I read this book called by bypassing spirituality. I when they talked about people who come to buddhism or catholicism or anything else who actually have. Emotional emotional problems that they have solved. And they get the idea that they should be good. And they might be being good may have this skin roar underneath him of anger or or something which hasn't been resolved, but they they can't do anything about it because they think it's not not mean it's not good.

They're not being spiritual me. I think that I was really impressed I think there are some people who come to buddhism or or any religion because they they need health but they really need some psychological help and and and sitting on the cushion and trying to be quiet, and trying to be nice and everything isn't really getting it what they need to to be begin and but I that. Well, I think I I disagree the point. It they're sitting on the cushion and then doing the practice properly, it is going to to what they date, but they tend back to.

You know, but you're talking about people engaged in spiritual bypassing. It's all at a super superficial. You know, in a sense, it's really a massive amount of pretending to cover up supply. They're not just pretending everybody else. They're also pretending to them so. They're suppressing the things in themselves that on steps very acceptable. And the people that I think can engaging in spiritual bypassing they're involve buddhism and spent very little time meditating. Okay. And I think Jason copies I, you know, read that book there's really only one second i remember in that book.

So, you know, looks like And Json Top, said, you know, he are you meditating? Are you pretending medicare chance? Yeah. I was. Say. So i'm schedule you can, you know, I can to. Very sure. Understanding. Spiritual can latch on the Richie saying really strongly and go about being very interested. And as far as the understanding goes, you know, they can spout the little pla attendants and things and, you know, they absorb that stuff just comes out of their mouth and every situation. But what they don't do because they don't practice.

And if they do see... It's for short periods in time and they do something it appear little. That cultivating the life warehouse a lot of parents. A lot of parents here if got what mean So wouldn't straight. So it it have there's tendency to use the practice to avoid and suffering and increased pressure. I mean, that's sort of where you're coming at it from as long as you're actually doing the practice will that take care of itself and some. I mean, can that be overcome by the practice? I I I would say, yeah.

I think we have to more closely. What exactly you made, but avoiding suffering and and making yourself happy. What are you actually doing? What are you actually referring to. But if you are doing the practice, did that's the interesting thing about it? Is it Initially, everyone's motivation is really that. You know, I I'm gonna sit it because I I have this hope based on what I'd read her saying other people that gets going to do that currently. Identifying happiness and free. Exactly. So that's really where we're all about.

And and for a long time, that is your motivation but the nature of the pack that least understanding and and actually achieving the goal involves getting a big attached to it. Good have the idea that I am the cell too is going to be become realized because was realized is not the self mind itself. So the path itself, I mean, in a sense For any past the word, it has to be able to do that. It has to be able take a person. Births ignorance attached the self filled with the desire to find happiness and avoid suffering.

And step by step lead them to the place for all these things or reverse. But just using the words the eu use. You know, somebody could. Someday he could be attached to could be using the practice you're using the dial to find to have themselves happiness and and into the avoid suffering in ways that are going to block that right map. No matter how hard you try to follow the meditation instructions. Is you're have involved you know, a darwin group so that he can have sex with the key young ladies that the two things are gonna be, you know, working against speech other all the time.

Not much. If if you no matter how hard what part that your mind would like to. Really do this practice and she achieved a enlightenment but if there's another part of body that says, yeah, But I impact like i'm to really called being and get all this recognition and abe admiration and maybe money too. It's not gonna work. The part of you that maybe really would like to achieve the bridge the practice is always gonna be signed by the other part of you a cushion, you know, and then is the smiling guru but they hand out.

You see what I mean? So That's the sense sandwich if you if you really try like if you really try to follow the practice, but you're still totally immersive you the pursuit personal pleasure and satisfaction having the waiting site, that not work. That makes sense good? Yeah. For the problem that's the term of avoiding stuff. What's the problem. Well, it seems to me that happens. So it isn't about waiting it isn't it about just accepting that that's what it occurs and maybe that's not your goal but you're goal to experience, you or Spontaneous Question.

Yeah. Okay. Questions have a problem with the word but avoiding suffering and suffering happening. So aside about avoiding it. It's about finding eighty. Finding the joy in this. Is that? Okay. Well, it that is one one way to deal with the suffering frame that's part blank. Is to say that I wife maybe filled with suffering but I'm gonna try to maximize the joy and happiness that's a part of the mix. But you see underlying this the belief system that underlies is that that the immediate causes of suffering are things out there.

And the immediate causes of pleasure happiness are things out there. So from that point of view, avoiding suffering means doing whatever you can to avoid the things out there that might be suffered. And And even if you accept that, well, not gonna be totally successful avoiding suffering, but I will. I I I will definitely give a walking across freeway ways with my cost. But it's not all focus on getting as much happiness a satisfaction out of life, but I can't. And you're still thinking of it as out there and you're still pursuing those things that you think, you know, there's money very sex.

Whatever it is you think it is and give you low friendship admiration. You know, there's all of the eight were only da. That's what they're call early pink. The world darned is the out there things that we think are responsible for our happiness in separate. And what this is the about is it goes right to that level of the assumption that that causes of suffering and happiness car out there. And realize that suffering is how I respond to what happens out respect And happiness is how i you respond to or whatever.

And therefore, forget about manipulating out there, Although we still want walk a class ways at at point. But instead, instead of putting our energy into avoiding and pursuing. Here so that when things happen, we don't need to suffer as a result that. And when good things happen to us, we can enjoy them fully. But they're not the because of our had yet. They just they come into to they come into a light that has its own internal source of joy and happiness. And simply, become of part of that joint happening.

So the term of avoidance was suffering, implies the misunderstanding that suffering is something out there to avoided. That's something something avoid causes suffering. What what caused siren is we create it and other then avoiding that, we just need to learn to stop creating it. Yeah. Well, I I've been sitting here you know, I have myself why I meditate. And I find myself them thinking about this perhaps the issue firm being happy. I'm happy. But I don't that... That's not why I do. I think happiness is the end result or the boiler the side effect of what something else.

And you know, we... It's no accident that that in every time and inclined every spiritual tradition throughout time. There has been there there is a common denominator of experience. Deep experience that comes about through silence or through. Even among people, who don't have a practice that they sit out in the forest years. And so it it seems very evident therefore for that. There is this ground of the meeting. There is this condition that is indigenous. We are indigenous too. That we come out of near spores if you will out our this.

And so when we approximate ourselves to to the conditions that bring about a warehouse of that. You know, we... you know, it's like this magnitude it we're just when we the medi we're sitting in forest we go on printer or whatever. That we... It would... We're just like stream or we're not even streaming into it. We are it anyway. You know, we just have there's an live there's something live in curves. So so happiness then, It is side effect as I said. Oh, being in proximity to this ground being that that we are.

Pardon And that brings in them this whole this fall. This whole subject of Virtue and in relationship to that ground because it seems like when when we're virtuous when we're when when when we are when you know, they'll shalt not kill kind of thing or do not harm to others in speech action and and, you know, all the pre it all has to do with how we interact with what's around us. And when we do that, the matching... That's an internally expansive. Inner landscaping. I. Put it that. You know, that's that's an expansive thing you're aware.

What's around to? When when you're not virtuous, you know... It's me lying, you know, it's all of this. It's very contractual. Inner sense. So i I guess i I think about this word happiness raphael around back to that. I I wonder about that word happening me. You know, we use it a lot Wonderful. It explains a condition. But but it also seems to be very so focused. It can be any anyway. That that I want to be happy and I want to meditate because I think I can get abby. And I don't know. That seems to go on the office to actually really well to ultimately get to or what this is really all about.

Well yeah. Then that's what I was saying earlier that where you start looking the that transfer to. Where you started? Because... Yeah. Wanting happen. As you go on that, that it becomes less than less what to do. And long i is virtue you what we're doing because we're be behaving and so we already already at started deletion. That's okay. Alright. As we go along? We started out believing that happiness us is a kind of stuff for that week get. And you know, the crude forms the pleasure I talked about earlier.

We experience of as and i right wouldn't you agree that most of these course times and pleasure, it's gets like a... It's like something that we pain for spouse. It's happiness us and then we saturate ourselves for little while. Happiness, but then like a kind of stuff that doesn't last and if there was a way. And as we go along, we discover that real happiness is not cause some kind of stuff that can be added on or take. Way. Real happiness is The true nature just d adam that the reason that these course forms of pleasure produce the sense of hacking i scan us is that they temporarily relieve us some degree to some degree on the need to keep grasping after things.

Know, it's providing wasn't us for degree of us. And the most sublime happiness is the happiness that you find with the most complete contentment. So you find it u aha the stuff that was shining through from underneath that I used to think. And I used to think all stuff in between was very happy has came from. But the happiness was shining through all that stuff, and I was just a taste of it mh. When you kinda the place of i'm just being and serenity at few tattoos. What it take. Then you all. This is where it was really coming proud all along.

It's this deep source. And so and as you understand that, probably you become less and less fit in all the stuff that he thought involved with. So then yeah happiness in a sense to describe it as a side effect. It it it it kind of is. But it's like saying that the part of the diamond is a side effect of clearing all by. Right? So it's it was what was really there all the time the part of miss being. I'm obscured. The other thing you said though is you you think about why your medicaid And that's actually a very good practice.

At least it was from me and I I think it is very like is to often ask yourself. Medicaid okay. Why am I doing? Not not from the perspective that there's a better answer a voice answer could answer bad answer. Just being in touch. But okay. Being in touch with your life. What is happening in my mind is bringing me to the cushion period today? And if you do that frequently, you come to know all of the different kinds of reasons. And some of are pretty superficial. But that doesn't and matter. Even the superficial reasons help bring it to a question.

And as time goes by, war and more often is... you know, if you ask yourself like fresh why nineteen guess. And and tell if kind to find it... Oh it's just what there is to be done i sit here and just be from a while. Can't break. Chasing all stuff. Just sit here ba in the natural joy and happiness that comes gaining. But it's all of process and has all these different stages to. That's one of the things that one of the things I haven't been able to get around to people send me questions. And I've got several people at the same time, basically asking the same question it, you know, how can desire and enlightenment new desire mainly insight and desire and always things lead to a state of desire listening.

Sounds like a contradiction. And and and it does. Logic it. But that's the only way it can work. You can't you have to start with me who or wherever you are? There's no love choice because that's what yes. And you accept that by egg if you even see this is where you need to go. You don't pretend to be there when you're not. But he tried to act just so. Already had that miss up you know because that's conducive to today. Right. So if they're saying, oh, I i say because I have all of these problems in my life is gonna my hope hope it's gonna help me get through that.

I'm meditating because I I'm I'm hoping that I will get to sit here in enjoy some of that joanne bliss that have people talking about. That's quite alright. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe you staying attached to that, not getting beyond that. That's not good. But that's where you are right out that's what I appreciate here. Good enough. Good.

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