The Mind Illuminated archive

Stronghold 6 March 2011

Sunday 03/06/2011

Automated transcription

anyone have anything they would like to talk about this one? Yes. This is not a fully informed question. But I have this little book. It's called Jesus and the buddha. And I'm wondering if you might speak a little bit about their messages there. How how it's really such a similar message? And My understanding if you might speak a little that. I agree. It is very similar. Message. And certainly in its most important to respect. But as you said, that's not a very well formed. It's like that's a large topic issue huge.

Sorry that. So maybe someone could help me perhaps there's some aspect of the relationship between the teachings of Christ and the teaching the buddha that if someone has a question about or the but like to comment Don't know yeah I think I would ask what what similarities... I mean, I see similarities and how price told us to practice our faith, and buddha is followers to practice there their fifth. And I wonder you could speak about the the applications that try and buddha gave us blah walk. The specific application.

Sure. I I see many similarities I along with know we thought about both specific. All they laid out maybe contrast or how they can compare? Well, where I'd say really strong some similarities. The Buddha told us that the sense we have of being a self a separate cell. He is an illusion and that that illusion is at the root of all of our problems of our suffering and our behaviors that cross different for other people. And he encouraged the cultivation of loving kindness and compassion. And sympathetic joy.

To Joy and and the successes and the and and the happiness of other people. He gave us pre to follow, which basically can all be summed up very simply and cause no harm either to cell or to others harm. Which were elaborated in a series of pre su. And I see that, you know, the teaching love your neighbor as yourself. Spain really essentially the same thing. To love your neighbor as yourself as to realize that the separate that we tend to experience and attach to so strongly is an illusion. Because, you know, and their heart of hearts, your neighbor is no different than yourself.

That at the at the root, we are all as have chance that we old one We're all one in the sense. But once we've gone past all the sort characteristics of our ordinary mortal self hood those things that there are things that are unique to us as individuals. But beneath that beneath all of that. And at the deepest level, the the the consciousness that experiences being is really indistinguishable. We all we all suffer in the same way. We feel the same pain experience the same joys as cap. And i I think that this is a really I think this is really at the core of how both of these teachers taught us to live in the world.

And gave us various other tools to use. As as well. And enhance that. And this is not this is absolutely not an easy teaching. It's an easy teaching to to pair it. It's an easy teaching to to as spouse and say, that's... I believe that this is how I should treat other people I should. I should approach everyone with Love. And I believe Jesus said something like I probably don't have a right for field. Whatsoever you do to the least of mine that you do to me? Right. And if you did nothing else your entire life, but trying to build up to that teaching.

That I would be a pretty pretty major task to undertake. So That's one really major similarity that I see here this teaching. I'm not sure where else to go with your question. But if you have thoughts right not. I I'm grateful for your words for sure. And and I those things that not that. I find those two figures very compelling. You i I loved to study building moment and try drop from both them. I feel like it's kind of like If you ever get a eye exam, and we float the lens a little bit. You're still seeing the same letters seen that right?

Get a different perspective on the one. Joy about. Looking into god's expression for other cultures, other people. And we a great men started And how what had to say was so some that Because there can only be one universal truth. Only one I back. And so although there are the differences which often to a lot of conflicts amongst human beings. No. You have to realize it. I here you're either saying that that some some people's beliefs are totally and erroneous. Or else if you believe that they are also speaking about the same not then everywhere we see a conflict must be must be a mistake on our part and understanding.

What's mean? What's being said, what's being intended? A different perspective like analogy or of the optical machine where they switch the lenders. Yeah. You get a different perspective, but you're saying that you're saying the same truth. And by seeing it from a different perspective, very often, you can understand it more clearly recent. Yeah. Had adds dimensional to it. Yes I'm good to jump in with this. I'm thinking about the aspect of well. Loving ourselves, how can we love others unless we love ourselves first and sometimes feel self indulge to love cells.

But we can't really love others. There's so much actually self abuse and my culture in teaching. So I'm just thinking back that aspect. Well, is it's a very interesting thing about psychology of human beings. Because we simultaneously find it difficult to truly love them accept ourselves and we also find ourselves not accepting and loving others at the same time. And it turns out that these two things mirror each other the more difficulty, you have accepting and loving yourself and more difficult you have accepting and loving other people, which I think tells you that it...

It's not the self versus other acceptance and a lot of. That's why you gotta cultivate. That's what you got to work on. And you can work on both. Un olson self love is where do you set yourself about greater importance and different from the other. And... But when there is a wholesome cell log i when there's a wholesome lot of others. You're in that place of have the the one that's the similarity, the same notes. Rather than the difference than extinction. So what we really need to do is is to cultivate acceptance of everything and everyone including ourselves so that we can learn to love everything everyone ourselves.

And in some particular yards all for each of us. There's some ways in which It's easy for us to love ourselves perhaps too easy. And there are other ways that is difficult to love ourselves. And the same thing with the people around us. There's some things about other people that are very it's very easy to love certain other things than other people. We're other the things that are much more difficult. And so this this is our work. And the two support each other because when you find it difficult to love yourself, then switch to loving others and to serving others.

The really important way of learning to love others is to accept as to is to serve others. We have to we have to allow ourselves a certain degree to even accept the idea that we're gonna do something of service. To somebody else. And that humility to the degree that we can succeed and experiencing that humility, that that opens up that that capacity for a lot of to be extended to others. So when you find a difficult to in yourself practice loving, when you find it. Difficult loving others look at yourself and look at the ways at which you are not able to love yourself.

And there you can find the answers. I think something probably we all familiar with. It's almost a true and I think most people have heard it and thought about it. How often it is that when we don't like somebody else, if we really look at what it is, we don't like, it's something that we are not able to accept on ourself. Right. And so if you if you realize that and then you find you find that somebody is really great on your nerves and you know, you're always feeling angry and resent and you know, feeling version and hatred arising towards that person.

And then if you keep this in mind, then you'll think to yourself. Okay. What is it really that I'm reacting to? And is it really something in myself? That I'm rejecting and now because I haven't because I recognize it it myself, and I can't accept it in myself. And there's those times when as much as we would like to come to a place of love with somebody else that that those powerful compulsive you know, feelings or version and resentment and hatred and jealousy or whatever it is. They're there.

We just can't get around but. This is a way This is a way to get past that is okay. Let me see if I can see myself in this other person. And use that. You use that as a way you can approach the. And again it works both ways too, of course. We all have certain things that avail ourselves that every time every time we become aware of them, they put us into some degree of guilt or self loa, you know, these negative feelings structures at ourselves. And if we if we reflect, and if we look at other people, we will discover that actually Our capacity to forgive the failings of other people is often greater than our capacity to to to get our own failing.

And so when we have trouble forgiving ourselves, Now. And guilt a good example of that. We a lot of this carry a lot of guilt around for not just for things that we've done, but for the things about ourselves. That caused us to do those things. And especially when we recognize that that trait is still present in us and so that we are likely to do the same thing again in the future. So when we when we find ourselves confronted or something in ourselves that we can't that we can't come to that place of acceptance and for others.

Sometimes really helpful to turn outward. And, you know, there are people. There are people that you love very much. That have falls. And then because of your alarm, you're able to accept their faults. And so you can you can use your ability to accept the false to cultivate your own capacity to accept your own failing. So seeing seeing yourself and others and others and yourself, but it's very powerful tool to use. You know we go through things and, like people are in relationships and their partner will decide to leave and love turns to resentment hatred, all of these other things.

Life there's no shortage of if there's no shortage of opportunities to work on love that acceptance. We we have jobs and we have coworkers fairly... We feel threatened. Out us or perhaps they have personality characteristics so make feel put down or inadequate, like that. So life is full of lot opportunities. Which isn't how we usually think of, life is full problems. Life is for of rotten people. No like this full of opportunity. And these people you might think of as your enemies actually be your greatest teachers.

Desperate hey Winston. Not everyone. And you don't have to take them home for for dinner. But if you could love them and have to be willing to, that would be pretty nice. So is it through service? That we find our path to accepting ourselves and among or so. Services of is it's such a powerful practice and it works on on many different levels. But, yeah, It definitely it is definitely an effective way of learning to accept ourselves. It's interesting thing about service. That when you do things, for other people.

It makes you feel good about yourself. You know? And so if you've been in a place of not feeling good about yourself. It could be tremendously therapeutic. There people that I've worked with. Suffer from severe depression. And I always encourage them to get out of yourself. The best thing that you can do for your feelings of self loa and depression is go do something for someone else, stop thinking about yourself. Think you about somebody else thinking about their needs, their problems, their happiness, do you can for them.

And it's more... It's it's a very powerful medicine and it works right away. You know, If you if you take yourself out to that brood place of depression and and go do something for someone else. I... It's like an an an immediate tonic, You know, and it it gives you some relief right away. And if if you recognize that and make it into a practice, I think it can go a long way towards resolving whatever it is that is but you went to that state of your crash. But did depression sort of the extreme version.

Right? But we all real whole experience. Difficulty accepting certain things about our ourselves, certain things absolute things about ourselves all the time. So Let's say exactly the same principle applies. And if it's not something like a severe depression, then they the beneficial effect of shifting into that place of service, basically at love is even that much more powerful. That's sort of like you're using a really powerful medicine against a much milder form of the disorder. So it's just that much more.

In depression and then a lot of learning building. You know, even when we are critical of ourselves, it's a reflection of a really strong attachment to the Id of the self main real. The way you perceive high end this trying to person percent you know, that attachment to the this projection we have what we are That's that's really behind this problem. Service as I said requires humility. And that idea of who you are isn't just the the things that you don't like about yourself. It's the thing that you take pride in about yourself.

It's the things that you're very attached to. You know, and you to engage and even the slightest active of service if it's genuine service. Means that that you're letting go to some degree. Of of that attachment to sell few. Very helpful. Save as what the path of service. It's called sounds. And it it can be made into when's the entire spiritual path. Could be generally you wanted serve. I was thinking found that your question about differences between and and christianity. And because I've been thinking about this in reading and a long time.

And I was thinking about The problem we were talking about of was like somebody and having a hard time. A lot of those things come from child, a lot of the our hardest issues and we're and not being able to like other people or not liking certain situations come something that haven't been our childhood because I I think that most people were injured some sometime and they were in children. And I think Jesus had a a softness of little children come onto to me. There's kind of a hard hurtful feeling Christianity of gathering the the children and and loving the children, and and maybe you're your your child that exists in you forever, is is it can feel complicated and love through to teaching the jews.

And in the teachings of of buddhism, the meditation that comes and the medi practices that we have can take beyond this early things that we we have to deal with so that you see that you know, there is is no self as you see it. There's a much broader place where you come. And then in in Buddhism, it's it's called compassion. Where when you reach that lighter space that you can find in meditation. You can look out and see that all people are the same Everybody wants to be at. Nobody everybody wants to have pain and then you can get a picture of seeing the suffering your own suffering and the suffering of everything else and find up on a a broader scale.

And you know, you can do that in Christianity as well, but the those patient practices are not so so much like done acceptance a certain small aspects christianity. But that's kind of sure what what kind of the thinking that I've been? I'm doing. I think From the the conte of Christian perspective. There's a there's a long history in that section that you talking about small section. Mentioning i I I feel the same things, I believe it certainly the same way that you do. I really you. I feel like I'm living that guess seem to so talked about a the finger crystal inside of ourselves.

That cave in our heart will of like. That one. Or silent available for christ business. That illuminate fat and he pushes it out to all meetings. That is it. Connection that we all have. And he's in every everyone of us. Hey we project Christ from our body out to other people. That's the compassion requirements. Yeah I think that's think that's what what I rather would I've experienced this. That what of counseling tradition speaks about. I really enjoy aspect. That's the the Christ within us. And it's counterpart buddhism is is the bud nature.

Yes. We all have food nature. And it is our true nature. We just can't red rediscovered that. So when we get service to others, does do we receive the gift of or true nature coming back to us? That is true. And i that point been made sometimes so. That the more genuinely we give, the more receive. And it's important not to give with the expectation of receiving, but it's impossible to truly give without receiving and actually receiving back more than you yet. So it's like a paradigm. You have to keep forgetting that you're always gonna get back more than you give so that you suddenly you're giving can be genuine.

Just the just just came into my head. Natural world, like animals and plants, stones, Are they pure buddha? They have self consciousness? Yes. What that means is that although when we look at the world, we may not necessarily be able to discern and understand inherent purity that is in that the buddha nature that is in that or that it. Or the price nature that's in there? Or... But that doesn't mean that it's not there, and we need to learn to be able to see that. You know, when we look at the world some people who look at the world and always cdc see is he'd be kill or be killed, you know, survival over the strongest and so on and so forth.

But that's That's a very limited way of looking at things and it's not at all universal. Most are the native American traditions if you ask for them what they see that they see kill and be killed to see that every part of nature has its place and it's rolled away and if it's at, you know, the coyote eats the rest But in a sense, the rabbit is fulfilling... Revenue has giving itself. To the ongoing process ongoing process of like. And that in nature, this happens spontaneously and automatically human beings, we able to get outside of this nature so so far that we have to work our way back to being truly and harmony, but with what is.

With the creation as it is and to... And and instead, of course, what we do is we judge We we think that we know better things should be, therefore the way things are is what, you know, and that's basically, what you're doing is is you're saying, I know better than god. I know better how things should be than what is. And, you know, that's a new bound to lose Your mountain is you're bound to be disappointed and that. And I can tell you from experience because I spent a half years of my way. Disagreeing with disagreeing and.

I've got it. I thought I knew better And is it's it's difficult to recognize that. That there there's a perfection to things even when we see, you know, we see terrible things happening around us And the fact that we see something happening that shouldn't simply means that we do have a role play. When we see that, we need to do whatever is in our power to write what is wrong. But it doesn't mean that that we know better than the way things are. Yeah sometimes we'll see a problem and we'll attempt to write it.

And prior attempts will fail. And we have to be able to accept that that is as it should be to. Provided that we've done the best that we can. That's the whole the one thing you always have to return to. And i the best person that I can. I'm i living my life that's right that I can't. Know, i responding to the things that it presented to me in the best way, that I can't. If the answer is no then there's nothing more to be done. But if the answer is yes, then you have to accept that no matter how it turns out.

It's the way that it should be and that there is a greater wisdom behind that than but than the one that you're able to bring to the situation. Has a very liberating, because to strive and fail is a cause of despair frustration, losing hope losing faith. But to try and know you have done your best. It's just the opposite. As long as you continue to live, you have the opportunity to continue to date your best. That's the hope. That's an important thing, I think for first Understand him. The times that we live at because there's a lot of very challenging difficult things going on.

Well of course there always has been in the history of human beings. Human history is history of cal events brought upon by ourselves. And it looks like it. We're just as busy at it and doing that as we've ever been. So it's very important in that that we keep that in mind. It's very easy to look at what's happening in the world other world's problems, society's problems and become despair and discouraged. And if you find that that's happening, then you should remember this what what I'm talking about right now that that's just your judgment.

That's your perspective. You think you know better than what is.

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