The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC 3 March 2011

TCMC 03 March 2011 Part I – Q & A is first audio below
TCMC 03 March 2011 Part II is the second audio below

Automated transcription

I do have something I wanna ask, but I don't know if I should ask it after... No. But I just wanted to ask about everything we give of consciousness. Everything being? Is everything consciousness even this? Is everything comes us. K But the they delete the answer is, yes. The end it's really really important. To know what this long processes are behind the question. Because there are senses in which you could make that statement. Which would not really be true. Okay. You took that question. It contains helpful for example.

I'm conscious of this you're conscious of seeing i'm process of it. Saying that and computer. Have been that, you know, and say before either of saw sample we show this apple. The apple even event exist. Yeah And i course immediately say look, what that? Is world there the said up mind is. Maybe it exists. So on so forth. Get getting it through the search of Philosophical building. And although this my sound feels philosophical. And describe it as more empirical empirical. The only things that have ever existed for you or for have been those things unconscious.

And so notion of existence. Except in an abstract sense and as of soft about proposition. Existence has no meaning outside of our conscious experience if. And that is that's one of those things that is so profoundly true that is also sees trivial at the same time. K mh You know. It's right. Yeah. How well. Right. So what is pointing two is that... We want to discover the the true nature reality that ourselves. These are exactly the kinds questions. That needs to be asked and need to be answers from exactly as kind of respect to real realize said consciousness is such a fundamental ground to everything.

That really they conscious. Concerts experience is the ground. Beyond, which where is there to go? And so from now, then we can turn around and say, okay. Then all of my exploration what is is reality has to start from that. And it has to start from. By conscious experience and the nature experience. Which naturally leads to us doing exactly what we doing. Which is cultivating cultivating mind. Why does the process experience? And conscious experience the line Manifest as objects of are attachment.

And the awareness that we experience that's constructed. How. K. So that's what we're really dealing with. It's it's it's all in sense, it's all about consciousness and everything you know, the the business objects, audio judgments, abstraction, good bad every edge. Always these they'll all come down to this option of line their recon. That's you know, that's the starting point for our exploration. So the answer is yes. Or what did you mean by like, question? I think and that... The work. Is that physics?

Mh. And I think it's whole point is that everything in consciousness and the science that assume haven't assumed in the past that the brain is source of consciousness and be saying it's not the source of consciousness that everything is comprised of consciousness already and when you brain eyes your free from and misunderstood misunderstanding. Mh. But I guess, I'm having a hard time see this is conscious. Well yeah. Is this sanchez? See. I seem like a really silly question good. No. If I said, is this person tran?

You make a judgment. Based on your observations. Aaron. Why you observe to let you know by your self? And with this... To of my hand and do. Is it can memorize everything you say and repeat it back to? It is a pretty impressive. What is it that your brain does? Same thing. A lot of it is very simple isn't... You know sense this bring information you know. So parts of your rank process, But that information comes in. Get started. And first the other thing is that later on, you can do something. You could you could report that information back to somebody.

Where you could carry out some action based on that information. But that's still in sense not different than reporting different kinds of actions, but the both actions have flow. How to and imprint the past experience made on material. K. So that's why no point that i can see one. There's lot similarities either organisms with nervous systems. And always we looking at people look at each other. And we're pretty certain that other people are conscious. Okay. Dogs monkeys. Say well, yeah. They process too.

What about cockroaches and skills. Well, Most definitely at least for me those people. Whatever you call it, it has some things in common with what we see in people and not some dog. That is also very different concern right. Or what about earth forms. You know, You know, or very very even by simpler. At the same thing. You see that there is there's a level of complexity. There's a level. What these nervous? What they're able to take in what they do what they're able take in. How long they're able to retain it and how it the actions that they subsequently they perform.

There's similarities and these differences. Differences into your complexity, but they're still fundamentals. If I were a define awareness, I would define rare as. The property of the nervous system that prevents those events that. Can be sensitive by the nervous system, like an imprint system such that it can produce an effect. Either immediately or later on. And whether it's somebody way to talking about nurse farm or mosquito, or key or a person. You see what they all have in common, is an advance occurring to that individual can make an that produces and infect either immediately or later on.

And subjective, we know that it's variance objectively legally, we detect a similarity process even in the mosquito. So that's that's what the sound is is. Well, what we call consciousness. I've very ready to find out for you to have to. First page refers too well, is that subjective experience, media in the moment experience, of no I of knowing something a conscious of something. And psychologist and their scientists have the word for that that's called h. You know, I send quality q a e l. Ia play or that huawei is something like the b of the Sky.

Or the warmth that you feel understand. But these are very clear, very precise specific examples what we're talking about. Consciousness is that immediate subjective, first person experience or something. Right? Doesn't Mosquito have that, or does an earth weren't hand back. It's really in my mind is very personal. It's possible. But in many ways, you see it's it's hard for me to imagine. That in the sense that i have a conscious experience of things that these meetings are very, very simple nervous systems.

That it would be that similar to what I can... But when I think of in terms of awareness, it's very much same. Here's very distinct difference between consciousness sort of. Or his want just a very cool hybrid form of the. These it things to think about. Then... Just to see where this... One of the places is this case is text many as requested to one places that it takes us. We can say, well, can we define the awareness in terms of a nervous system later minute. Let's leave nervous systems out of it.

Material processes. Things have events occurred to even rocks and mountains trees. Things so Like that. Which leave inference. Which produced the effects way. To see what's happening here is we're starting to see that the most common ordinary every day cause an effect reality, hit one off with another relationship and out of it. And it's bears of permanent imprint to availability to place. But all of a sudden, these very ordinary cause and effect aspect of material reality that we take so totally granted.

All of a sudden at a very fundamental level have something in common with conscious experience as if they're at one in thought a spectrum. And our conscious experience itself. Well enjoy Team. Other end from the spectrum. The rock she had went he heart opening up and walked and joined at the other. Right. They don't. At least in my mind when I think about these safe. They no longer has such said. They they don't longer seem like such totally different listening distinct terribly separate things I did before.

So there is a sense then which you be in to ask out what is. How relates to email. And you're beginning to suspect that well, maybe what we experience in one particular form is consciousness is what one manifestation, of something that is spoke to gary essence of everything. Else. That area machine. Whatever ways, we may see it. Perhaps perhaps this consciousness and stuff is that they're very has. I don't know. Does it did... Could you follow me on that little journey? Yeah. Ben it... I thought darling me a good case sport need a lot of sense but fully review a couple more times to to I couldn't repeat it.

Yeah. Alright. I Haven't internalized it. Right. Yeah. And that's the... She's speaking have works on Zen physics. What is it James Star? Is that his first name? David. David Darling. Yeah. They're very interesting for. And I I recommend it to be those of you Have typed it pretty very interesting though. What he provides there is a very electrical and rational analysis, you know, basement physics and science and boston me slack out. Of these ideas. And you said you couldn't repeat it. I guess you yeah attorney wise it.

Most important way internalize it to to your own first person investigation. So hear rather than repeating his explanation, he would generate your own understanding. Because who even knows whether David Darling understands this, if the deep the fast abstract interesting tracking actual here. U. Please further questions. They're really important this question, not as answers. Somebody comes along and says here, everything everything's consciousness. It's that guys of realize it. You know? Everything's consciousness.

If he talks really well and can get you all jazz up i'm excited. You know, emotional stuff happens and get a good glove. Off here right. Fine Where where where would you put intelligence in there with consciousness and awareness? Intelligence, Well, that's a very good question because you know, if you look at If you look at human brands. And if you compare human brains to machines that we've developed to to do some of the functions for us that usually, the the human brains used to have to do all by themselves gonna hate.

But you will say yes. Well, we've created some really intelligent machines as a matter of fact. We've created machines that are enormously more intelligent than any human being, but only in some very narrow specific way. You know, we can we can create a machine that I can feed any thing on chest. You know, recently, they like passing called Watson, the program the the program that has challenged people and right. This was a really tricky thing because they had to mean machine. They can understand him language.

And the nuances of Human language and tons and things like this well enough and and van watson. Has done a pretty good job. Just always manage every, but least be recently being the champions of jeopardy. Right? Is that test doesn't not guy. So we can create machines that have very specific ways are more intelligent than human other think. But in the sense that we stick your consciousness and awareness. We could say, well, I can see that watson Definitely he has... If I can see awareness in rock that gets scratched or checked.

That most definitely Watson got back kind hilarious. So that comes to consciousness and the subject subjective of experience that we're talking about. That's very difficult for us to see ana iran for watson, and they seem to be different name. So anyway, tell me. Well very closely related to awareness and consciousness. Right. Is is something different. It's an ability to manipulate information, and it's a very important build in we have. And it's something that we use our business for. I mean, sometimes the question is asked, well, why are we anybody What purpose absurd we're consciousness seems to serve through greatest purpose is when something new unusual, challenging arises that we refocus our on.

And we use our intelligence to manipulate information and rearrange it come up with. New ways of looking at things new solutions to problem, new ways that responding. So consciousness and intelligence and and the things were very very close we got it. And all the wonderful super that we think are the useless piles of hardware without consciousness to generate a a purpose and intention sort of. So they seem to be closely related to different almost parallel. And it's conceivable but something here And enormously intelligent not just in sense for your sounds, still not have involved in consciousness.

That. We see in ourselves and other sentient themes. But then too, when we realize this sort... The that consciousness does seem to somehow lie the has or everything. We have to ask ourselves, well, how can we do? How do you know what that doesn't conscious in a way it's not obvious us? Jason Av Watkins. Conscious computers consciousness. So we'll build in the future will be work on. With would you say that what we call consciousness is really multiple processing going on and that there's not one awareness.

There's no one intelligence, there's not one consciousness or is there. This one inner. Because you said look at our own, you know, observe ourselves and stuff. So it seems to me when I observed is are multiple processes to sort of come together in some ways and sometimes you don't come together. That's exactly what I see too. When I go inside my online, I see there's a huge multitude of process taking place. And not same the one in this wisconsin spot. So not in the sense that we've been talking about most recently.

Maybe in the sense of check drive. But single a one of those consciousness and that such atkinson. But when I look at my online watch approximate. I watched these when I watch consciousness arising and consciousness passing away. What I'm aware of taking place is a convergence. A lot of these processes. And when they can converge consciousness there, when they disperse. And I'm also little yeah. I to speak of a conscious of or i and consciousness conscious and singular. And those moments of greatest intros affinity.

I don't see that. I see rather there are a variety of consciousness. Of different degrees. Instead of just one. So is it just one of those consciousness do serving? Of being consciousness passing away? Well, one... That's about the experience is like this one consciousness watching other consciousness rice and yes. Can can emotions be a link between... K emotions? Ten promotion speaker. The late between consciousness and intelligence, the emotional quality to to sleep to see the whole picture. Well, and what are you mean by holding link between emotions seemed to be I I would say that that emotions are a kind of intelligence.

They're different kind of intelligence than sort of logical analytical intelligence. That's the other thing I find it in my mind, there's a variety of different kinds of intelligent. U. And emotion, is one of them. Have kits a very powerful and in some ways, it it's powerful but some ways it's not very sophisticated. It's a rather prudent trying of consciousness. But it can it can take a variety of information or a complex event woven and crystallize it into a single motion which stands to shift my whole conscious being in one particular direction.

You know. So it's like a form of intelligence that takes all the same information the other forms of intelligence are working on and it process in its way and the result of his processing. Is to put me in in particular amount same. I was definitely different than machine on the intelligence of the machine. Yes. Right.

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