The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC – 16 December 2010


TCMC 16 December 2010 Part I – Q & A is first audio below
TCMC 16 December 2010 Part II is the second audio below

Automated transcription

this little period but before we begin i said is it's a good opportunity to Well, to get to know everyone else and Us at O and you care to say anything about yourselves, or you have any questions or comments? We're from gotta being done. Oh, okay. We're out there. Helping that bill three night station points. Mh mean. Mh bad. Along manufacturing retreats. And volunteer. Lindsay? It's near. And many of the people then speak very very. And both any interest how services and to practice students so up accounts.

Okay so enough. And particular zero. I don't know if you know, Yes. No. Thanks. It's insisted. Okay. That's not her to be there. My name Perez. Your name is. Katie. Yeah. And Nick gay, yeah okay. And tony. So should cost. And. Thirty sorry are you have been doing being meditation practice for yourselves? Okay. What I teach is let's called me. Son us. As it really recognizes that summertime orthopedic. Same. Of. Thank you. Thank you And so Yeah. That's just any way that I can help you in your practice.

And please let me know speak up that's questions. Because I'd like to be able to get. And Actually interested in learn you learn meditation from or a so far teacher. Well, i what's your what's your background. My background is very interesting if means, it's... It's. I very thorough mixture. Hug you mah hay Ontario. My teachers were Jody Down And Came and the Vas came and they were students of Nam gel, who who spent got first half of his spiritual career as an antibody. So that he was recognized by as the two coup nam german.

So I have... I I don't make distinctions along those lines. I draw free you what you. Every part in the to just So welcome to everyone else who's come in. Since we be began this conversation, it's good to see you good to have you here. Lunchtime. Oops This right. I missed last time when I didn't mean to. Yeah. I'm glad hear tonight. So does anybody have any practice related questions would like to bring up this point? Or to respond to Teddy and the gay presence? For those of you who came in late, this is Ted and Mc mcgill who joined us this evening on the recommendation of some other people that have meditate listening.

Yeah. Sometimes when I i say... I'm I lock my spine for for city. Mh. And time passes is I began to kind of get a resonance in my spine where I start doing a a little bit of this. But if you really study it, It comes out goes, which suggests to me the w of a bell, that is constructive and destructive interference kind of overlap. Like there's more than one wage going on here. And, you know, I try not to get sucked in study yet, but it's there. And I I don't know whether to push it away or say, oh, wow, this is this is so something kinda complicated or or, you know, they'll old say meditate harder and it'll go away.

Well, don't don't try to make it go away. Don't even we shouldn't go already. But don't chase after. Just let be there. Do you know what it is? Yes. It's it is. We one how many manifestations phenomena that happens. When our concentration starts to deepen. And We experienced some movement of energy in the body. And sometimes you feel that energy electricity sometimes it's very powerful the time it's painful for. Other times, it manifests manifest more as movement and not so much your feel and it's so to make sure both.

And it can take many different forms. But it's completely completely normal for it to show up at a certain stage in the practice. And if you If you just let it be, neither chasing after it nor trying to stop it or control it anything? It will intensify and look on more and more obvious. And then eventually it will reach a point where it becomes a really a beneficial flow. It smooth out and used... All the strange sensations and the movement go away. Yeah. Yes. No I'm speaking from sort of the subjective way that I experience it, But it's like it's energy movements.

And once they have made the channel, is kind your. Once they've made a channel for themselves, so if they flows smoothly, it's like like a narrow stream bed when it's got a flood going through it and it's all swirling and turbulent and creates all kinds of things. But at some point it erode an open channel. And then there's even more or robert flowing November four, but it looks as smooth as less on surface. This is what happens as this energy is begins to move more and more freely. It creates disturbances until it creates a channel that can accommodate all of that at which point your body becomes so stiff.

Sort so sub sublime still. So I can simply accept it as an evidence of the point of deepening. That's right. It is. That's very good way to put evidence of the form of deep. Very similar here's parent. So drake white. That often the companies said or, you know, some to have more of the one than yeah. The there number of others means like this. Okay. Thank you. I I wanted to know if it was... You know, no. You know the system you know, you're not really meditating. Or you're just traffic. I'm not.

When whenever of the system, I'm distracting myself. And it's nice to know that, you know, maybe I I haven't entirely other be. Maybe, I'm not just faking it. It it is. It's a good son. Okay. Anyone else have any comments? No? I know some of you have have this experience as well. With that in to the body actually moving the... If that happens, so we want to minimize that if possible. Not necessarily. No. It definitely, the the movements of the body can become quite pronounced at times. And it's if you're If you're energy retreat with people who've been meditating for quite a while and you know, you peak, you'll see people that are doing like this and people are going like to us So yeah I'm gonna.

When when I when I leaving my retreats, I considered part of my job teach. And the news, I kind of know... I I I see what's happening with people in they're sitting and I kind of know what's but what we need to talk about? So they have a lot of or if they're really really still and sitting there really, really still it's just this little smile on their side I know Yes. Start to share my my experience? Well, I've been having some very very drastic in physical for the last two months. I mean, that very very interesting.

And in the last two three me to speak one more that's learning. Was just a lot more present than it was before but but you know, i I think it's it's transforming me something else and just stay And just a little thing to add. That. Sometimes this phenomenon come become very disturbing, and it will be necessary to work with it in a more deliberate way. Usually, that's when without going through phase it seems to be moving into that record with body or around and around things like this. It just shows up and it's just all of a sudden energy coming straight up spine.

That's that i really disturbing that. So know, if you're having these more peripheral central per and back time of movements and things like that. That's that's really, you know, you're lucky that's that's a much gentle and easier way for them to develop. But for those who have have more disturbing tanks, very often doing any kind of body energy where Chi gong Tai p. All of these kinds of things that to allow you to actively move energy are very helpful. Even combine that with practice and starts thing.

But as far as the movements, you don't you don't need to suppress them and unless if they... If if they become disturbing, say the key thing that you go by is, can I let them happen and just continue my practice? When when they keep you from just continuing your practice, then you need to talk about the teacher or consider options or other ways of of dealing with it. You know And and sometimes it's appropriate to to do that. Alright. Also with the physical sensations is, is exactly the same principle to the extent that you can just allow them to be, be aware of them, but continue on was your practice.

Then that's all you need to do. But when they begin taking over your your attention, then sometimes you need to make them the meditation knowledge. You can move that energy around. The energy these energy movements in your body follow attention. Wherever your attention and awareness go, they can or they can move the energy. And so sometimes that's the appropriate way to practice. But don't worry about that until you reach a point where, you know, this this is starting to really disrupt my practice, then talk to somebody about finding a video me.

It's It's... For me, it's not at all disruptive. It's just the fact that it it was i'm. Interesting. Yeah. But there are a lot of interesting things if you can you can... It it it's Good to sort of notice these things without being caught up i you? Yeah. Right. You know, When doing a breath meditation, you'll begin to feel who the the energy the breath moving. In and out from the corner of the body. And what you'll notice there is that it's in the same rhythm has the breath, but it's not in the same phase.

That's a very interesting thing when we notice. It's it's it's partially phased of shifted. So And it can be poly. It can be big smaller waves cortez larger waves movements in one direction super imposed on the blocking movements and and things on the that. So Yeah. All work those are are are cool. And you pretty even jolly can do is say, own nifty. I wonder what that means. But now mh. I get to ask you, what does that mean? And you've said who would sound, oh, deepening. And I'm like, oh, girl.

That that that's what it means and you could say, oh, nifty, and then just let it go. It has special teach as well. They what? If it has anything special to teach you, yeah. If it if it will, and and you can just it just be open and and in in case there is something for to have. Sure Don't need to chase after it. Don't need to analyze it. Oops. The rates starting to quiet down. We have a few minutes left. Or anybody have another question then come there. You believe the the ultimate studied about and Mah having a lot of personal experience.

And also spent quite in your in amount of time meditating. What is your genuine heartfelt belief that the purpose that the ultimate name meditation is. The the ultimate and aim of meditation is it's it's a awakening getting to truth. That that is the that is the ultimate real purpose of meditation is to way change to truth. All of the things that we do in meditation if you if you examine them, you'll you'll realize that there's certain common threads, you're always training certain aspects of your mental abilities.

And they're exactly those aspects that you need in order to to experience a deep understanding of a reality of what it means to be in the moment to be a conscious pain. And the whole purpose of that is to bring it out in a way chain. Cara All the same thing. A lot of different... It's discussed and described in so many different ways. Can sound sometimes like it's not the same thing. Mh. What are your thoughts? I believe I believe that the aim of meditation is is also the truth. And I also and I believe that that is a a roots to a a large tree of explanation.

That statement the truth. I believe that meditation can transform. Drastically your perception. So you're your level of experience. Changes dramatically into one of a very different perception where where beings that are taking on quite different form and and reality takes on a a deep... A very magical flavor. Mh. And... But I guess, meditation, maybe is many different experiences of truth and so maybe there's is one experience of truth, which is so for unforgettable. Alters. Every perception you'll have after that moment.

It be forever. And maybe that's the goal as many experiences of truth and then we have a a great moment of awakening about a moment of awakening giving so down that it's maintained. As a of weekend statement. Your current board assistance. That's true. Because at some point, There are a lot of little awakening along the way a lot of insights that arise and a deepening understanding. But at some point, there's a major shift that takes place in the way that you understand everything. It's not the end of past.

It's really the beginning of the best. But because it is a a very dramatic internal transformation It's it is a relatively permanent nature. And you can build on it, and you can grow with it. It's not something that that you lose. It's a matter of fact it's worth just mentioning and passing that. There is a tendency to to seek experiences to look for experiences or to desire experiences. And snap about experiences. And some people don't actually have any, you know, huawei, you know, experiences, but they undergo the same for profound change.

The important things about the fruit of the practice. Is is the permanent changes that take place in the way we see an understand thing. And and so it's it's actually only the the ego self and the mind in its ordinary everyday mode of functioning that is looking for experiences. And you know what the buddha said that all of these teachings. You said, you know, all that I teach is suffering and the way suffering. Most of the kind of language and discussion we hear about nowadays when somebody's is talking about a weakening or leg things like that.

You're find the buddha didn't really use it. Kind of terminology. He was much more interested in what happened in the longer. Well, why don't well everybody... That's everybody will and get comfortable and then they'll stay.

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