The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC – 11 November 2010


TCMC 11 November 2010 Part I – Q & A is first audio below
TCMC 11 November 2010 Part II is the second audio below

Automated transcription

What could evening? Nick. I hope everyone is doing well. Yes. Won't look like Dear. No. That's or. Nope. Good. Good. Okay. So Didn't answer your time. So Wonder if anybody has any questions. Yes. Kindly talk a lot about when you can't see or one to do when on sleeping. Yeah. And what I found out when I do internet pain of mind when I do meta, we're even calling and at night. Mh. It gets me to a different space, and then and then I can So that that helps to put that away from... Very good. Idea. Yeah.

And you know, Even if you don't go to sleep, you're using your time very very well. And actually, that's probably the most important thing guess each. If if you can't sleep you you your time productively as those than trading about the fact that you can't see. I'm sure you how many people have trouble here. You. Good. Good. I on cycles. So yeah. I how you're on Cycles too where I speak very deeply and then where I often seem to right. Site. It's interesting that We live by a clock now I don't. I don't think to live black talk to the extent every do.

And of course... This time of year, could start right. Pretty close to twelve hours a day. Which is a lot of time during which you chris breathe rate. Yeah. But we we don't we all expect to be able to stay up and and watch chat. The late news and then very we have big got time to do at work. So your body doesn't wanna go to sleep in that period of time. You got sleep. And then you start taking the nest all these other drugs too. For sweet. And sometimes ask question the wisdom no all that. I find it i'm on a computer.

Within about three hours. Okay. Obviously. I'm can't sleep for many hours. And there's some expectation, I think. Which we also like. Mh. And the keyboard. I mean, it's just so bizarre. I wind there And I'm thinking and I'm spelling out the word such things. Mh. You know, it's it's it's really really disturbing easily I think somebody who was studying. I probably that what you already found lot. Funny Do we do? Shouldn't say this but I'm I just listening to Me just. If I like listening credit just mean.

Not in the sense. To. Well that can be good too because if there's a lot of because there's a lot of information being presented. So I actually need to just digest it. Here just sleep in your right continuous processing. I have a question on this And I think it's probably pretty sorry one, but I I believe i'm one cell And i on. And that's about inside meditation. Mh. It seems to me that regardless of the technique one might use. That by the very nature of becoming still. There are insights Absolutely.

So I'm I'm a little one... I'm wondering i did about why? It forms of meditation we call like, velocity inside limitations. Why why is that flies a designation like that? Well they you linkedin insight. Well, the fact is it's marketing. My form and weren't getting any great. First, you, there is absolutely no reference at all too. Different kinds of meditation and to insight meditation as a type of meditation. In the sutra or in any of the classical commentaries, know, thousands of years of buddhist literature.

This is something that showed up. In the early part of the twentieth century. And And then they really in the sixties and seventies went a lot of people like, you know, Jack Corn and just Goldstein. And those folks went too. Southeast Asia, where where it was being identified as a separate kind of meditation. But, yeah. It's not originally that way. The idea is that we're pasta, which it means a special insight, you know, as opposed to mundane insight. You know, sort of ordinary kinds spots so we get through thinking about that.

Some more direct deeper trying to realization. That's what we're is. And the entire the dha and its entirety, the all of the eight path, All of these practices, are intended to bring you to the point of experiencing or plaza. So in that sense, every practice keeping the pre services over the boss practice, everything. And also the energy candidate too, it was never suggested that that out of all the all of the different practices that make up a dark. I made up p path that there was some... One of them that was particularly going to be conducive to bringing about with Bass and what the really what the teaching presents is the interdependent of.

And and you need to practice virtue you need to practice meditation, you know, you need to practice all of these different things yeah. At the same time in order to to bring yourself your mind to your consciousness, to state where you can experience these profound liberating insights. But there there is a historical background to this. And tonight, what I was planning talking about after we said was mindfulness. What is mindfulness focus, you know ask everyone to tell you what they thought mindfulness.

So you can start thinking about now, but actually same line this. But in meditation practices, you develop both concentration or intentional stability and mindfulness, which is I where highly conscious kind of awareness. And you need both of these. But there are people who take our meditation, and they meditate in such a way that they develop the concentration, but they don't develop bit on develop strong mine. And so it was really in reaction against the fact that that happened and that many people were in in history we have done.

Practicing forms of meditation that develop tran like states of concentration, but no mindfulness. And so with in the Ver sports tradition, out of acquisition came these practices that are called dry inside or su pasta means dry hand. They were basically marketed. I mean, it's it's the only word that I think really describes it. Those these practices that were being done in the mono and then now the forest tradition came this practice, which sort denied the validity going into translate states and said you don't return light you have to develop might.

Kinda went all the way in the opposite direction said forget concentration just fill all mindfulness. Which is actually impossible, but it's kind of... It's it's the reason that they were able say this because people would have all concentration. Anyway it took all of the emphasis off of the concentration and intentional stability part of the practice That happened in the early part of the twentieth century has spread throughout Southeast Asia until by the time that shows a gold staying in Jack Corn and shannon Sal and you know, all of the names all of these folks got over there in the sixties and seventies went to these monsters.

Basically, what they were remaining exposed to was the of Thoughts practices that had had this enormous resurgence in early... I shouldn't say resurgence. It was a resurgence of meditation dedicated to mindfulness, but I'm not sure that the repo practices ever really were not much at any time previously said history. But anyways, it swept off these Asia all over Sri lanka, which was still on in those days and and Burned and Thailand and those areas. And they, you know, these driver practices became very possible.

They called good parts in our practices. Because the emphasis in terms of the end result was on achieving its right. And what what makes any practice or would place in practice? Is that it lead you to examine investigating things in such your way. That has leads to those deep insights. Jonathan practice is is a repo practice. In that sense. I mean, that's the most commonly mentioned meditation factors in the Buddhist sutra. Is electronic practice. But they're they're... As opposed to a dozen or two references to rap and all of the sutra.

You know, the John mentioned has this thousands and thousands of times. Many thousands of time. He tries if you do the john practices. Right? It does bring about. Yeah. Fine. It does bring up realization the voicemail of. So any practice that has a potential to bring about insight to the default of the bus practice. What you'll find those is of practices that are build as Marketed it as with. You might say, I'll have him come. Is that they put a particular after on cultivating mindfulness, Although when you first look at those practices, you'll find most of the mindfulness that they're there most...

Most to what they're having you do. Isn't developing mindfulness it's developing concentration. And that's because you after concentration you can have. Interesting question. Though, I know. Probably gave you more an answer than you wanted. But it's it. It is an interesting thing though. There's always this confusion concentration versus insight. But there really is no versus on this. It shouldn't be. Yes. Have shirley pendant by patrick at. And and our conversation of question she came up post We're discussing so the joy retreat and and they weren't as a joy and then block this to to to that join.

And and and so Shelley brought up the the practice that you have suggested many times which is to look where it is in the body. Mh. And stay and it. Right? And see what happens. And and so my question was that became planning because there issue belt there, you know, doubt is is present often and and enterprises this but when that happens, so try to find where where that area of blockage or is and your body, you you get into that space and then You don't. Mh. You know, the question arises of my my protect.

Am i trying to find this year, and it's not geared. So say, you know, we we throw the exponential dose. Because you know every got up don't. Now what do you do with then? So when you look into your body for the sensations instead of present when you're experiencing dell. And then you begin to wondered whether what your finding is? Something i just making up because you're looking for it or really any there. Yeah. The best way to deal with that when happens is to continue your exploration and see where it takes you.

Because Any sort of state that has an emotional flavor of pleasant or around unpleasant. Going to bodily sensations is is a really good way to... It's it's a really good avenue to connect with that. Which should allow you to develop them as clear or perception of what's actually going on. Okay. I have these feelings, and I'm i reacting to these feelings that in particular right. And it's reinforcing some thought process like the down. K? So you know, if you find... I mean, have have you found some sensations that you thought might be associated with dell?

It's. And and what are taking like? Down the chest. Didn't know that's. We'll just... And I try to go to my body you know, and and scan, it always has a just feel pretty. You know, that? So if you doubt the validity of your observation, how does it affect the feeling? Well, how would you expect it? Affect? Well, if you had say a a tight feeling in your chest. You said oh, this must be the physical manifestation of those psychological doubt that I'm experiencing. And then if you have a strong data attack about that, Would you not expect that feeling to be even stronger?

Mh. Logically so yeah. Mh Well, That's what I mean by see where it takes you. Say, okay. I'm even more doubtful now. Is that feeling stronger? And and just just look to see where it will take you and without any expectations over leave. But really, the physical sensations are way of coming to understand your emotions better. So that's that's really that's really what their utility is. So On the one hand, if this feeling of tightness in your chest is the date sensory handle that you can use to get to to get in contact with your dell.

If it really is that then tried easier it. Mh. For that purpose using that for the purpose of getting of gaining a deeper understanding of the experience of doubt. And and so forth. And and if it's not, then that should reveal itself too, you know, and If it's just something that you're projecting, can then keep looking. But if it if if if it if it really is a physical sensation that access queue to your emotions, then you shouldn't be able to use it. And if you can use it in that way, to learn more about the doubt.

Then it served its purpose. So it doesn't really matter whether you imagined it again. It succeeded in. You know, and one thing that I notice is that emotions don't necessarily always manifest with the same jira I know, it it may be that most of the time just for example, that fear creates a tightness in your throat. But it doesn't mean that it always will. Not sometimes it would be different. So... But don't worry about getting in, you know, but I'm doubting that this is the feeling associated with doubt.

Because it's not that kind of exploration. It's it's where gonna take here. That's all it is. You're exploring the territory of what it means to Be you. And so everything you discover is valid in somewhere way or other it's just... That you may you may be mis misinterpreted it's significance. But that's already. It's still valid and if you keep investigating then then your interpretations would become clearer. One of the other things that we just had a great discussion for today But one of the things that that was mentioned was I think it worked shelley.

And we had a nice conversation around that too was... That there is... There's really no defining line between the mind and body. Absolutely deleted. The the... You know, And and so... I mean, that's... And and and and when you're sitting on cushion that you're meditating the begin with observe that, that's pretty that's pretty interesting stuff. What what the ear might hear and how it resonates in body. It has nothing do with the year. Mh. It will resonate somewhere else. It's tremendously so. But you see a smart interchange and and this one is see tiny sense.

It's sounds sorry for good discussion your It need to... Does it review if gesture right? This is just an opportunity to ask questions about practice. And we'll be meditating if you hold. So if any of you that just came in, got excuse me Questions on your mind. This is a good time to raise him. We don't have time to answer them now maybe get to it after we'll shift. I wonder how many you fit for at least hour day. That forty five minutes is, you know, that's that's kind of a minimum. And depending on how busy you are that may be to that you can then.

But... She should always keep me mind that, you know, if she could do a second set or extend that. It will really be to your advantage. Mean sitting longer and down that if you sit for... I it for, like, twenty minutes twice. Yeah. Minute. Sitting longer has kind of helps the mic settle down more or It it does. Yeah. It it's worse it's worth extending the the time you said because well some of you that have been sitting longer, Would you have to comment on that before I say something? Yeah. The funny minute mark brick.

Just called right takes my mind, generally twenty minutes to settle down. Mh. Usually, right. I mean, it me it could settle down more quickly, but I feel like after twenty minutes there's some shift or... Mh. Don't i have a more quiet place. Yeah. And that's that's Yeah. Thank you. That's that's what I was going to suggest is that it takes a certain amount of time. For your line to settle down to get focused. And then there's another period of time when you can sustain that focus pretty well before you reach the point where new challenges arise.

You know And so if you don't sit if you don't sit long enough, then you don't... You're not really deep in your practice in the same way that that you would be if you saf. And enough first of all, get to a really settled state of mind. And then when you do that, it you always get up just when you've got that sort of state of mind. Then you won't be getting that next stage where the settled state mind starts to rear off and other things start to merge. One of the really interesting things that happens in meditation is when the mine becomes quiet and all of the usual sort of everyday noise hands.

This is when a lot of the deeper stuff and be stuff from your past that's getting in your way but you can't see it anymore. Residues of cast emotional traumas, all this other stuff begins to emerge when you when you manage to quiet it the line down, then then the stuff comes up that can be really healing. And so it would be unfortunate if you always stop sitting, just about the point where that might begin to happen. That's an idea. Well And having said that I'll just point out to you too the When that first begins to happen, it can be disconcerting and uncomfortable.

But if you if you stay with it of... That your mind not only calling enough for these things to come Your mind's also calm it often and has an enough that you can have to look at these things. That have been there all this time and begin to get into a place of of acceptance and and not needing to resist them hide of anymore. So really is a good idea to extend your meditation. And I know know you've been meditating for some months now. Same that's that's that's. Yeah. So I I would say, you know, definitely it would be a good idea to start, you know, buying by whatever small increment you're comfortable with extending your meditation sets.

See if you can't get some of these further benefits from. K.

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