The Mind Illuminated archive

TCMC Thursday 07 October


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TCMC 07 October Part I – Q & A is first audio below
TCMC 07 October Part II is the second audio below

Automated transcription

Good evening, and. Welcome. See. Two face here. You and for. So we're going to sit in half hour twenty minutes and so this is this is an opportunity for us to talk about package issues. After hello. Oh are here. And what Eighty. Sunday days that's an achievement. But that's it. So inward... Yeah. I'd like to like to hear what anybody right. From from being so the last few months and I've kind of been getting closer to this concept of non south than we talk about a lot. Yeah. Both and you come in pretty close to to death and and have to think about, you know, not existing anymore.

But but then also when, you know, everything about my body is looking differently behaving differently and the the subject subjective experience is totally different. But You know, from this very profound non self experience was not of drifting up to Nirvana on a cloud very unpleasant. And I guess I was wondering about ways to make, you know, Not just experience that here, but any, you know, small experience to of non self into something helpful for the practice instead of something you wanna get away from.

Mh. Well Good question. Because it is really true that the mind, the mind has generated this idea this belief in. The subject who self we experienced, as me a reality, this is the way you're line works. And any experience you have So whatever ingredient deals, but that's not really true. Is not to produce that the initial reaction is going to be same anywhere from some mild emotional discomfort to outright and a desire to make your mind start taking and feelings not been totally different as soon as can.

And see this, you know, in in certain forms of meditation practice. If you do it kind of the inside practice. Which doesn't develop joy and tranquility quality and, and if you haven't spent a lot of time getting used to the idea that not only may the self that feels so real be an illusion, but that in fact, it'll be a good thing. So so these are really the two things which are gonna make it much easier to have those experiences and those knee it soon If you if you've done a lot of processing both at the on level that Oh, yeah.

Not being on self I think that my hands isn't going to do such big disaster. Who comes a lot easier years. If your mind is conditioned to be so that you can allows generally. And you can bring that joy to the say of and then essentially what we've done is you've disconnected the promotional reactivity. Okay. All of our emotion if you think about all of our emotions trying to make this do something, And what they're trying to make us do or change is something that is going to increased azure decrease unpleasant of our experience.

So this this is really the whole a complete description of how your how your blind functions. Motions, motivate to. Thoughts and actions and and making changes in our relationship and environment simply to maximize And then lives this budget. Causing. And is the opposite e is accepting whatever arises buzzing or unpleasant without react to it. Know and there's all kinds of different degrees of that. But I think it's obvious that the more you very kind of experience you talk about. The less emotional reactivity that's.

Right. And the easiest, one of the easiest routes to add is through joy. Being able to experience to be able to get... When we need to have joy at happiness, that's a pleasant say your line. That's a pleasure that doesn't require you to go out and do something. Or the change the relationship to the world his happening side. And it's just there and you can you can just enjoy it. And the tranquility aspect of that we have to get used to this. Even when we've learned to rounds during ourselves, And sure becomes familiar, we're excited by the our natural reaction is we wanna hold on to a want more of it.

And that is that's that's not going to take the place of because wanting more of it is is being non with the happiness the drug creates. So that's why in the practice our teaching, we really want to we really want bring lines in the state where it is a lot of I not majority the time trent and then there is because it's trying make it much much easier to deal. With the blocking sparkling revelation that everything that would clint to so tightly isn't Yes. Let me specify the the the question i'll share.

So i actually from the practice didn't have that sense of shock. What when this web myself you, was totally disappearing? It wasn't unexpected to be. But combined with, like the of, you know, just sort writing wherever it was that body had to go. Mh. Was also this desire yet. That you forget me by better meeting more. Like, I used to be more like accustomed to being and that. That that sort of compassion Wish for health, you know, especially long own health seems to be around Buddhist teaching as well.

And and I guess that's what I'm confused at out how the, you know, of accepting wherever the body is going. Can somehow make room for that desire to be healthy to be more like the self that we're accustomed to be. Mh. Well, and in your actual, did you find that the entity towards what was happening took away the desire didn't get well or alright what we it. Yeah know. No. They seem to coexist exist very very side by side. You know. We do... We do you the word desire and we use this word and then so sometimes we talk about it.

You sound like when make it sound like like everything that you got the label on. Is is is the problem. And we want that to go right. The that we're left with what what then is in a passionate what is good wish what is what is. What is the desire to see the body get well even though una? Process. So maybe maybe we need literally needs to to find the way to to speak of it that doesn't make it appear like, it should be contradicts contradiction because you didn't experience so. Yes. We want... You know, I I want to I want to be.

Well, But if something is happening, I don't what I don't want is my wish to be well to caused me to cause deposit sorts of unnecessary suffering professor of what yes happening. And if in fact, I'm not going to get well. Then I don't want. I wish to get well. It's ten make ten the process of what's happening just all that much worse. Right? But fortunately, these two things can exist by by side. And Not a problem. Did you have the problem? Because he you started out saying something about make sense, so was frightening, difficult So when it was much...

I was funny when it was much worse, the problem was not as bad as is now that I'm I'm healthier. That there... There wasn't a sense of shock and then the body falling part, but there was also this, you know, constant hope that it's going to stop falling pipe that it's going to get better. Yeah. I don't know. When I was in the hospital but it did sort of balanced better. But now now feels like, there's I think maybe now just them getting more back to normal. My thought patterns. Yeah. This is kidding again I guess.

No and now I'm getting back at normal. My thought matter if you're getting going back to it. To normal. And saying, you know, They're gonna be kinda more attached to getting, but. Yeah. Exactly this. Like, I you know, I'm sick of this lying in end crap and when is this getting better and wanna do all the things that I used to do whereas two weeks ago, you know, to be able to get out of bed like I would have been real. And it feels like I'm losing losing that and just slipping back into this sort of normal patterns.

Well, yes, as you are. I you recognize that. And so so you both have the experience of... Have not having so much attachment and having more. And now you also have experience the scene how your your minds the visual way function as the research itself is going to rob fat. So this this is where you can focus your mindfulness is into is just understanding all of the little incremental ways in which in which you're you're going back to to the place that you would like to be part of that little free front.

So so definitely be aware of that. Then know, and and this is a place where a lot of the aspects of it back things that you've had heard about. That's right. Good. Not at that time have seemed. So terribly relevant or you didn't really understand exactly what they referring to. It's withdrawal upon what you've learned and see how the flies to exactly because we are a year year. You are consciously aware now the process that is it it's right at the corner. Because we're we're actually born fairly economists, children, it scenes or I understand children with temporal diseases.

Don't mind buying that much. The older idea, you know, the more attached to come to our bodies and lights and abilities and idea are. And those those patterns they're more more deeply and great. And so you're going through something that resembles that so. Now. And the only way to overcome the visual admins of how your my alerts is to see to see how they embed themselves and and and how and all the little ways in the course of your daily life like assert themselves and reinforces themselves. Is eventually the through practice through practicing the perfection and things like that.

And and I noticed mindfulness practice but we're really good. Is looking for those researching for those ways that that these not patterns side time that. Sorry. Now you're gonna be able to see practice. Thank you for bringing now. Welcome to you. I I'm already sorry. And like to hear from here. And I have been doing when lot of me the face him back in his and and I was just searching for on the engine internet goes to. So And Said, I'm very glad to be here to find place who speaks this language.

Oh well good how of years. What kind of education practice do you usually do? Often has name. Let's just describe that. Would have been a few of side traits. Mh. That Yeah. I'm not very... I don't... I don't know. I tried to say daily but I know. Can't really get up to do it at home. And like having a voice to Apart from the side streets. I've been doing, you know, weekly sessions. When you said to you, do you know take on breath? Or Press. Sound. Mh. Mh. And are you able to keep your mind focused on breath, or or sounds or anything that you choose for very long?

Not sure very long, but things have been where of is the ability to see and concentrate on what. What the mind right the mind the what you say. I felt that my man is really all over the place and I got to the meditation about i need to focus and and to see what the money does and not to be so attached. Wonderful. Yeah. That's exactly that's exactly what the is you tried to try to do one thing with the mine and then you find it that's something completely expect. It gives you an opportunity to come and ten.

So i mind better. And then So so you have the experience of sitting down to one thing and that suddenly realized i that you haven't been doing after though right. Yes. And have you noticed in that moment, would you realize say you're not saying what you? To have you noticed the quality of of your mind at that moment it? Seeing out of judgment. For half an hour. And judgment comes up? Judgment justin. No. Know what. What have you been doing? So. Wasn't me? I would you would ordinary. Experience limited meditation, a lot of the exception, but Mh.

You not just seeing weapon mind doesn't accepting and that being. So. Fighting it judging. Yeah. So you're gonna be accepting you know that this is gonna happen and even you're not so judgmental. Right. Yeah. And have you noticed that when you're not being judgmental, but has your mind just wandered that in that moment, It's like waking out. So... Yeah. Some a lot of times something like that. Many many feelings. Yeah. Well I'm trying to do notes now as to to bring into life, because that's why i find most her to do Can you keep, you know, focused what the deadline does what you're in?

Real situations in line in hard situations in. Not be so attached what the mind that's anger to jealousy or things like. That's right I show i'm doing with now like Mh. Yes. My biggest challenge I feel, like, when I sit down and quiet, I can I can work with my mind, but when I have one people in front of me that I have to do the same thing. If order to change the patterns of minor and the reaction. So I was actually very... I was very connected to what you were saying having to react Yes. Isn't the interesting thing that was the similarity in your day of life?

You would like to watch your mind and be where inappropriate emotions are coming out, like things like that But what happens you get call out in what's going on in moment and his lose... You lose that awareness. And that's it's exactly the same thing you sit down to say okay United. You're have. Then you get lost in some thought then you It's it's exactly the same process. You started out with one intention that's like different enactment. And as the good thing is as you as you train your lines so that you can continue to be aware of You know, really what you forget about when you're day anything you forget what you're dealing.

You you forget the meditation officer. But even to add you give more fundamental on than that as you forget that you intended to pay attention that. Is the same thing in your day like it's not only that you get caught up and what's happening. Is you totally forget the intended to be mindful of your line. Right. And so as you learned to do to do it and to be better to doing this and the quiet sitting. You we come better got it your date life as as well. But time One that we find helps a lot there is to recognize that we're dealing with metal processes that are not really conscious and they're not really intentional.

And so if we want to strengthen them, we have to take more of an approach as we would if we were training a child or an animal to do something. Right. Positive reinforcement. If we positively reinforce those those metal processes that serve our hands. It will be a lot more factor that negatively reinforcing by as you said Jeff tend to get and anybody like that. And so after I was asking, if you noticed that you realize your mind has wondered there it is it's feeling being much more awake and much more fully conscious in that moment of realization.

So you can And that's not something that you decided to do. Here happened. Right? Yeah completely me unconsciously. So as you reinforce that, I can join appreciate. Just, you know, re it. But all you're gonna increase the likelihood that that's gonna happen. The same thing is true in practicing mindfulness in your data right positive reinforcement. If you reflect on what happened earlier during the day and you realize what? Oh, I completely lost my mindfulness when the circumstances is just taking place.

And if you judge to yourself, that's not going to be particularly helpful. But if you focus more on or at least focus equally on the situations in which you were mindful, and possibly reinforce staff. And we both rather than drawing out than one or three unsuccessful. I bet here. I talked you continue to kind join this. I'm really realizing that one and things that happens for me not what I you were try. Mh realizing. My my mind likes to wander into thinking and problem solving, and I get a great deal with pleasure for And so it's hard for me to pull my screen back from that.

And feel positive... It's hard to reward myself to come back because it's a for. Mh. What do you suggest? Well, this was this a common experience sir. Certainly. You have just as your mind. Just something. You really enjoyed doing. And you don't really want it. Come back to meditating. Because this this is fine. This is satisfying. I planning i'm great project or things like that solving send problem. So You know, this this is not really different than, you know, you say i'm gonna meditate it such such time every day.

And then the time comes, and hit... Oh really rather gotta be something else it's gonna be. It's exactly the same it's we experience. It's because although one part of your line sees the value of the practice. And but like for you to get out your problem solving and to come back and do practice. That doesn't produce the immediate verification. And some other part of your mind would rather do what provides immediate gratification. So you've got different parts of your yourself that are not an agreement with each other about what should be happening.

One very traditional way of dealing with that in those science is to reflect on on your motivation and your reasons for for practicing. You know, to call it on... Yeah, something made you make the decision to do this. And you have red heard send you personally only had you know, and all these forms, there our experiences that have reinforce that. And that kept you on track up to this moment. So it is by calling upon them and that that we can find greater motivation. But. The other thing that is is sample but remote forks mark the way well.

Is that mute jeff beer. That you just... you know, even though you would rather you you you rather continue with the thought process but getting time my satisfaction. But if you can then bring me yourself to let go over. If you can return to the boxes, once you return to the practice, then that'll be already and he'll view out. That's a strong desire. It's this same way, you know, you begin to think that how well. Chief, maybe maybe this other thing would it be more interesting to do right now instead of sitting down the day meditation.

But as soon as you said now, end here. So that's that's another part of it. The motivation is very important. As a matter of fact You and if this happens very often, you can take a few minutes every time to meditate just to remind yourself. Of all the good qualities that meditation creates in your mind and all of things that he said he and heard his read about the people that he would like to have. And kicks if if you remind yourself of that before you sit down each time, then you find yourself in search situation you describe.

It's right there. It's easy to handle. Yeah. Now you just bring it right out then. But it help you to say with to back. The other thing too is that every time you succumb to the temptation, to think about something really interesting that came up in meditation, that those parts of your mind that have yet to be convinced to those value of medicaid are going to come but gonna be that much more likely to come about with other interesting things for you to think about later that on other agent. So it does, it is a self free reinforcing habit.

And one of the things I would suggest is if it's something really interesting and really feeling to is that you promise yourself they're gonna take the time to just sit there and and solve that problem or far secret it. But you're not gonna not going to do that during medications set. Thank you. Hey well, I I think it's time for us to sit.

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