The Mind Illuminated archive

Stronghold September 26


Sunday 09/26/2010

Automated transcription

I haven't formulated related the question but I... Several times. Let's see. I'll just read this this passage. Once again, I find myself confronted by the spectre and abiding spirit. The logic of Sun argument failed to convince me. It rested on the assumption that there was something I mine that rules the body. Which was beyond the reach of concepts of language. At the same time this something was also my true original nature my face before I was poor, which somehow animated me. This sounded suspiciously like the mine self got the indian tradition that the Buddha had rejected.

I could not reconcile the zen Buddhist love level. Mh. So we've been talking about mind in consciousness and body Could you just comment up this passage? Okay. Well he is. You know, as as... I soon say as skeptic, but he became skeptic back many years, of trying to c himself into accepting these things that he was being told and feeling frustrated at. He describes. The problem that we have is exactly as the Buddha after is on the line anyways considering whether he's should bother trying to teach this.

He said this is too solid. That was weird he is. He said this is such a subtle difficult to understand in doctrine or doctor truth. Really If you became the document later that's true. And What's subtle and difficult I understand about it is it it's so easy to slip into the mistaken views? That have been broadly ill through throughout to world. You know? I guess since human beings began to seriously ask themselves these kinds of spiritual questions. Those philosophical questions, but as an nature reality It's Think it's that's better.

Thank you sorry for the. And you know, the the idea of an, which the buddha rejected is. A somewhat more sophisticated idea the solar or self that I should say so the self of the ordinary person perceives himself to be and acts on the basis of all the time. This creates all of our problem. And and not our mind is... This this is the a way that our our brains are constructed. This is the way our minds work. You might have to turn that off. They all got turned this we need it. Thoughts on that. You can hear you.

You can hear me alright. Yeah. The truth that lies behind find these ideas that the minds generates to try to explain human condition. All fall short. Feel ultimate to true. And the whole idea behind the Buddhist dha is it it's possible to... It's possible for this. Mind to go beyond its own construct and gain a a much more profound understanding of the way things really are. But the only way that this occurred is through bringing the mind to the point where it cease to make this construction and an event occurs with.

Which then leaves an imprint on the mine. Which provides a much more profound and true understanding. But what we will see over and over again is that those who have had that experience tried to explain it to those who have not. And the minds with those not create more constructs to account for web they've been control. And saint lines have been wrestling with these questions and have been discovering you know, they they in discovering that the mines comb construct are require riddled with contradiction anyway.

So the mind is trying to do something but the mind cannot do, which is to create a representation, ultimate reality that goes beyond what lives capable of. And mine can't do that. I can't go honest. That's a human condition. Maybe maybe we can imagine some kind of thing called them a da or medicine as being some product of evolution includes of use future something with a far more sophisticated plan. But using the metaphor of day wise. The buddha basically said, even the mind of Deborah is not going to be able to create a representation all them true.

So all representations created broad line on they're they're ultimately inadequate. But all of these ideas that various religions some features and everything else offer us are these kinds of models these represent representations. Drugs but vermont. And we'll always find them. Time closely, we'll always find them disappointing. Ranking, and ultimately and sustainable. This is the process that What's this name again? Bachelor. Steven Bach. Steven Bachelor. That was his process of Steven Vascular went through.

Versus it to that month later as a end in Korea is that he was he kept being offered constructions of the mind. Based on the reports of those who gone beyond the line. Pass through. And he would examine them carefully, he would discover it that... Yes. They're they're flawed they're inadequate. They don't but they don't hold that. And so he became a skeptic. I don't think he started out as a skeptic. Became skeptical. A lot of people started out of skeptics and even their first encounters, but really religious teaching.

They discovered this thing at all is supposed to be offering me from a truth, but this just offering me more nice shift story. Yeah wait in this point. But you you read specific things there that Yes. When somebody tries to understand, ultimate reality, list the mine. They will come up with more and more sophisticated versions, but there's still versions of the same thing. The the belief that we are somehow this separate cell can be, you know, elaborated to be a soul white. So some something that exists separately from the body and the brain, and so on and so forth, some undefined way.

And then through further philosophical analysis mixed some degree of immature spiritual experience this evolves to progressively more more sophisticated levels, but it remains still just another version of the same old thing. We find this. We'll find this know I i like you to start setting meeting more... We find this everywhere fine. The interior modern and tradition in the Every. They come up with the idea of the the longer the continuum of the company. Which is a very sophisticated philosophical idea, which huge numbers of chair buddhist us have made into a more sophisticated version of the cell.

So, you know, even though even though they'll tell you first thing out involves is the we taught is self and then they'll proceed to you with the two self this for longer. In the Mah they call it the screen of consciousness. And the statement consciousness is just the same old cell wearing a different set hey do this over and over again. Hasn't said this is subtle and photographs. And so the problem is We either find people dressing up the old views, fancy new clothing or people recognizing that that's what happened and turning their back.

And that's what that's what made the buddha after his enlightenment hesitant to even try to teach Cisco her. This is subtle. This is difficult to grasp. And I think he immediately recognized what the problem was going to be. You're going to end up, but long as like the ones that receive investors teachers, Feeding him the fancy dress up version of the same old self illusion. And the people I see the vascular tried their best to digest it, but they have... This is the that built was thing most stuff and you're asking me to believe something that is nothing in my experience with reality that can support.

So this is this is a really good this is important. This is this gives us a map of the you know, don't go that way. There'll be demons that was number of that way with shi crash drops. So you've got to find the middle way in middle of course through through the peril of either. Skepticism and rejection ultimately leads to nihilism. And there are a lot of buddhist to because of this, you know? Or the other the other direction is is elaborate fantasy creation. The little way goes between those. That's what that's what makes I think that both my Steven and bass and enormously valuable teaching to because both kinds of people are going to read that book and they're gonna recognize themselves, and it's going to help them to understand that that somehow, they only hope is to find the middle way between these to mistaken directions.

So does that fit with what you understood when you read that? Yeah. And I've I read... Most of this earlier books they'll faded it out long time ago. So I can't remember it that well. But i... I finished this with. It do you think in the end, he he does have... He seems to be saying that the experience of emptiness is not all cracked up to me. That it's not it's not maybe a worthy go. Or misread you you you does he say that he very update. Well, that's what I'm wondering I finished it this year i to that.

I to he's saying that he has realized symptoms. That's why did he hasn't realized. Didn't. Not. Yeah. That's I was wondering he got because i haven't called need the move? Yeah. I he's not. That he hasn't experience that. He has. And if I I just say it correctly. He knows who he happened. And there's one people who haven't they think. Okay. Maybe it's like you know, someone that he studied so many years, so let's a month of, like, forty Yep. I don't know it's that many years, but it was it was quite a few years.

Early. I think it Now the the thing is that as we... As our understanding develops. The the words and concepts that we legitimately use. To understand the part of the journey that we've already covered and to describe the part of the journey that we yet need to go lends itself so so easily to this understanding this interpretation. Now if we go through... If you go through the steps, intellectually and experience through meditation. You discover well should have been obvious right from the beginning, that really consciousness itself, what it's hard for us to know what consciousness is and in the process of Doing we discover a lot that what electronics system themselves.

But as we as we come to understand consciousness better. And as we come to penetrate the illusions that we live in more completely. We come to realize that all And and I don't expect you to immediately take that statement, you know, and and be able to recognize the truth of it because you'd have to go through the process to realize that. I need just this a tiny bit of it is this. Is said the only things that you really know. Are the things that you know directly because they have arise as a objective?

Everything else you think about is only inference. Okay? If you've never been anywhere else in the world you infer what you've heard and from all kinds of sources that the rest of the world exists. But you don't know that. Couldn't all be nice. Could... You could live on a flat earth that's a hundred miles in diameter and the rest of this is just paid up. You drove here in your car. And you infer that when you turn me back in your car walked way, but still exist. But it's just recognizing that that is only inference.

That the only things that you know is certainty are those saying did you direct the punches on still when you turn your back turn around again, move at your car. Then, okay. Car has object the consciousness exist. But when you turn me back on it again, whether anything even remotely was resembling your experience a car, continues to exist in your. You you could never you can never demonstrate that. Right. So that's just that's just a little tiny piece of the process of discovery. I parts of are the the direct experiences that we have.

And we train our line meditation. But if we yet to the end of the process we realize that everything is ultimately ultimately from sound consciousness. Consciousness is the only thing that is fundamental to all that recall reality. Now if we want to tell that to somebody else, you know, how do we how do we communicate that head how this gear? Okay. Mind does everything. Well, mind isn't, you know, ultimately everything is consciousness. So that needs ultimately mine this consciousness too. So person, thinking in terms of of mind as our thoughts that are projections that dreams and our emotions and everything else.

Where that idea of mine says, Oh, so would you say consciousness, you mean mind? The person that responds to somebody that recognizes ultimately everything is consciousness Well, yes, mine and volume and consciousness for this same thing. Now we already have a huge divide. We have two different understanding. Somebody saying a hospital. But ultimately, everything is my mind, meaning my motion was my perception and my beliefs right i thought. Another person. Meaning something totally that there is is something which is described get as a clear light of mine.

Okay. I think that the investors using veteran. Like clear light my. So the problem is not one of these descriptions being right or wrong. But true and accurate descriptions. Being understood in totally different ways in a variety of totally different ways depending on where the hear is exactly. Or the where the listener is at of understanding come. So we could take our imaginary person who has been in conversation with our person who has has had a direct experience in ultimate reality. With their understanding and then they will go to their disciples been they will teach the truth as they understand it.

The mind is everything. What is this mind? Well, this is this is this ind thing that's separate from the body and matter in the world so forth. And some of us didn't quite even battle okay. I don't get it. That's good. Others will point out to them but... Well, this body in this material world that you believe in. They're just construction of they in mind if you think about it. You know and and that's where we call ideas. And that's completely true. So this person who doesn't really know with your nature of reality.

Can't teach the truth and say oh, well, you're belief in with next external world and you're really the body. That's what we call emptiness. Because those things don't really exist the way you perceive to. They are representations that are happening inside your mind that account for your sensory experience. And so your mind, creates this idea that there's a world that there's a slot injury. But that's mine too. So this person is actually teaching something going through. What that doesn't mean, what they understand, would be true.

So then the student steven bass somebody else goes us back thinks about it. Coming like with some more questions. You know, wants them to know. Okay. Well, if everything exists if only by behind and wrote them to you exist or or used in my mind too. And It goes on like this. And they took books shelves and libraries and books bookstore labeled blue to foot. Are filled with people going in all of these different types of circles. And it's about time. We need Steven be. We need people who go through this process.

We are honest. I've about. We honestly, he tells the story about the dollar lam getting and teaching and some some some high be chan at i want try keep the rain forward. And afterwards, everybody says, Yeah. Did you notice screen someone over there over here, you know, that. You know. I don't think anything's happening. Different he took. But we all wanted to believe it Yeah we all told each other was. And so we we all got all charged stuff to. And we need people who are willing. I I mean this there's an awful lot of buddha.

Who have had Steven Bass engineering. But very, very few of them have ever been going see. Come out and, you know, come out of the closet reveal themselves and say, well, you know, I can't necessarily buy all all this stuff. You know, it's very is very for. Very good but this is happening needs to be more It to reveal some of the and talk about them. Because you see them hear that, I mean you're told to investigate and notice that, but I noticed been very song that I've been in that it's not really acceptable too.

Yeah. It's. It's not acceptable. And you got play the game to be part of the group. And a lot of people got involved in the song in the first place because they wanted to be a part of something. They wanted to belong. You I mean, that wasn't their only reason, but that was part of it. So they came here looking for truth, but they also wanted to be part of a community. Now, they have to either to compromise their search for the truth or lose their their ability to be part of. And for most people, what cuts closer to home emotionally is being part of the community, so they don't speak their doubts, but except you know, on occasions with very special people private with certain circumstances really quickly.

So No bones are about. This is difficult to grasp history. It's subtle. And on the way, your online is going to generate over and over again the experience I'm I've got figured out now. I know what this is not about. And that's why because usually, that is him that that is a move the right direction. It includes a fair bit of valid understanding. It's just that it's it's still suffering from the same limitations as earlier concept. And the only the only danger with it and it's a very great one is that because you feel like you have the answer, and you cease to move forward.

Actually, if you are an intellectually honest person and you continue your practice continue with your research. What you'll have is the experience that that too will begin to slip into the test and you'll go beyond this spontaneously. The trap is when somebody puts themselves into the position of teaching this is else. And it becomes really difficult to get beyond your own misunderstandings when you teach them somebody else practice too. Unless in the process, you can remain sufficiently honest.

To say, well, Why more closely account that wasn't the way it was either. This is where I am now. But if you can't do that, if you have you have students in ad, who think that you were wise perfect master. You'll be in the trap that might as well be made of the thickest iron warriors of. Refuge for people who are living who our, you know, in this body and but looking for lanes to live. And the ways to have an ultimate. Refuge beer that it's all of us. I don't think we could stay escape that We make their people what's going on in our world right now that we take this down quickly better than it all the time.

Some some way of finding so having kept using the buddha, the dha and the song saying my refuge the blue the dha and saga. Just it just worked. You do. And and I I think well the buddha was somebody that I don't even know if he had actually existed it. I'm making me up myself. I mean, a piece also might enjoying create and the dha has a lot of comforting in good moral to make life. And that does make my better. I see that very clearly. And the song I should say having other people to be with you to be around you that you could talk to that that you feel comfort guess I don't wanted to say that it's all, you know...

And then the other part of it is that I do get is that consciousness. Not i, but this five piece is connect to that consciousness. That seems like that british ready instance to like the greatest. The the feel. I... This... Whatever I'm experiencing here. Is part of the greater goal, and that I look more more more experience. Yeah. Validate that for me. And they're hard to come up. But that they do put the have So I don't know that that's was why that's not even question, but it's sort right. To take brushes in the Buddha as a person or is an entity.

Is not much over a. I mean, I I would not... My anyone, whatever comfort they can derive. They're welcome to it. But ultimately, is pretty disappointing. The idea behind the that refuge is retained records place the awakening you're you're taking refuge and the buddha and we translate the word buddha, it means awakening. But he was called the Buddha as a as a popular named meaning the awakened line. So you're not taking right him sid art to. You're not taking records in one particular collection of the five aggregates.

That test your time, one particular stream of consciousness now. Because that's that doesn't give you much you're taking refuge hand about buddha. The possibility that you can that anyone can awaken from the illusion that we have lived our lives. But they just off their way from that's where we're taking. Rest is the awake the awakened one is the simple the symbol of that. How do we... How can we take refuge the? We can do that only by the example of those who have a weight. So when we take records in the saga, And you know, there's there's different senses of the refuge and we take it three times.

We take refuge and the buddha as the awakened one, we're taking refuge in the saga, meaning the sang of awakened weekend. So we're taking refuge, not just the buddha. Because maybe that was a fluke. But then there's all these others thousands, tens thousands hundreds to two valves That's twelve million maybe that over two thousand five hundred years. Who been able to achieve that same arrangement. That... Yeah. Doesn't matter really they're buddhist are not. They wake it. As a matter of fact the buddha would not been Buddhist.

I think that's what I think Steve ge says too. No. They're not all buddhist. They could, you know, make could be any tradition or or not tradition with those that awaken from the that our minds create arrow to me. If I could say I could take refuge in a way that that would make a lot sense. Yeah Well, and What I found reading different traditions if you... Whenever you find a a knowledgeable teacher who decides to discuss the relationships. That is the first thing they say is that you're not taking refuge in the historical figure.

So we... That's easier for you. I mean, the this is... This is our very first our very first source of refuge is the idea that when I realized that I trapped an illusion, and I'm suffering because of the illusions of my mind be. And this is our first array of hope is that it's possible it is possible to do go beyond this. So that's the that is the refuge that we're taking is that as possible it'll on. We take refuge in the da and the fact that I mean, it's one thing to say it. That well wow somebody did it.

Even a bunch of somebody did it. But unless you know how they do it. Unless you've got some idea. How they got from where you are to where they? It's it's a pretty weak refuge. Right? Gives you a glimmer of hope. But not something that you can can throw your full confidence into. But now the the idea of taking refuge in the dha is is there is a teaching. Yeah. It does provide guidance. A systematic process to lead you from here to there. And then you take refuge in the tonga. Because the idea here is that that song when we speak of the song of Aria, we're talking about those who have actually achieved away by following the da.

You know, we're thinking, none of those who may stumbled into awakening by accident of those that may have what they can do to other paths that were not familiar with. We're saying, okay. Here is this whole song, the Aria and Sand. Of those who have followed the actual set of teachings that I have in front me that came from buddha that provide map. So now not only is it possible? Not only is there a method that I can follow, but there are all these people for whom just as it worked. So that that's the idea of the record.

That is that is the true idea of the three refuge. It's k. Everything partake of this quality that it can be subtle and difficult the graph. So those who take refuge and images of the buddha and relics of a long dead buddha and the idea of historical buddha and take a worship full attitude. But that's not. That's not the. There are those they take rake in the dark eye in the sense. They'll actually take copies of the sutra and they'll put them on altar and they'll worship them or they'll have them printed in microscopic.

Characters and wear them, you a little angle around their neck so it has missing power. Or they will never memorize these features not necessarily even understanding what they say, but memorize very often, people will memorize citrus Poly, and they don't understand the where poly speak high or sri lanka in or something like that. These are all mistake you. So It's it's easy to do, and it happens very often. But it which is possible. I could imagine that. Somebody who did that. Those kind of things and and did it very earnest and for a long time.

My suddenly have the grace to wait. It's possible if the right things happen in their mind as a result of it. I mean, that wouldn't be my way but I for somebody who had that much delete that they it would be so so into it. All of a sudden Well, because of their because of their faith and the leak, all of a sudden. I think that's what Steve that said is that I I was sure I was do to all of that and it didn't work. Yeah. But I think that's really... Wouldn't work me, and I don't think I've worked for a lot of people, but I think it it could be a possibility.

Belief is it's now the important thing is what the belief causes to happen in the mind. What all of these different practices from all different traditions are doing is trying to trick the mind into making a crucial essentials shift. Anything materials in my make that shift. It's not the thing. It's. It's not the belief right. Because a billion people and believe with their whole hearts as deeply as they can and only one of them, will that believe trigger that shit? The shift of one example is you very much in parallel what Steven and vascular is going through.

They devout Christian seeking the union with God studying theology brain doing all this sort. Until they reach the conclusion, and you you'll find this written in Christian field. God is unknown. God cannot be known by the mind of man. If you know, sometimes it's put in more flamboyant in terms like if you were to see the face of God, you would be destroyed. But comes the realization that I will never ever be able to know god. This one thing that I've wanted or anything else all my life can never happen.

And we surrender to them. They don't give up and despair, you know, go and engage in the departure. Because that's what... That's one of the things that happens. We're talking about the case where somebody goes in the other direction. And they surrender totally, okay. I. So I give up eye surrender. I will never view and since I can never know god all I can do. Just give myself over totally to the the grace of god and what ever happens. It doesn't matter what you know, whatever it happens. Now this could trigger that's what triggers into the change.

That's what triggers the abandoning the attachment through so. And say thing happens. As long as somebody is saying, I want see emptiness. I want to experience it. It's everything that have. You become empty. Mh. Empty of any cell. Empty of any i. You you don't you don't experience that you don't see it. When you is reborn afterwards, in the same old way. You will make up a sorry about you the experience that you have. And that's why when you talk to different people you'll hear different stories about it, because that's not what happened to any.

It's the story the mine made up after afterwards. And if they're a Christian, there will be one kind of story in there june. There'll be a different kind of story if there Muslim, is different. If they're tibetan buddha that you had again a different kind of their tiara bottom it's a different. So depending on depending on what their minds filled with. When the mine turns on again, it's gonna crank up the story about what happened. Based on all their best experience. When you put them all side by side, you say, that'll sound kind of the same, but they all seem really different.

So whether it's faith, no matter what practice it is. It succeeds in the same way. It succeeds like reading about the cessation, of the fabric fabricated idea those fabric advocating activities of the mine, which allows consciousness, which allows pure consciousness. The the clear light of the mind to note itself. And then after afterwards you come back to being the single person who new. And you say well, why god. I think I better work on this client. And and that's why that's why the buddha identified four different stages.

Because there's a lot of work that has to be done. After as you come back, you come back to me, the same old person that he were before. But you know something that you that totally changes everything. My my deep deep hope... I have a lot of confidence. That Steven and Bachelor will persevere and that he won't. He won't abandon the request. You know, while having problems short of the goal. That's remember. He ended up setting up. That's right meditation. As he and his wife or they they have a medication center in France I believe it is.

They come to And they are now doing it they're doing better leading meditation retreats in the United States. This is say the meditation the mindfulness training. When you come back you'll single cell then you need to be aware what you do. Like it decent mine. You not everybody else too. Right? Well I do have you have you have a new kind of internal motivation for doing that. That. Feels to be that so many years I was driving driving driving driving driving strike driving steady, member doing all that stuff.

It it seems that relaxing that striving. Just being. Moment possible with the. Is the most I can contribute to myself in the world. That's... I love that description no that's very accurate. You give up striving and becoming. You give up the coming. Gas and instead you just start being. That's the big becoming taker of itself. I extension name first Yeah. Somebody much fun oh yeah. But you just... you know, that that is that's exactly what it is. He you just... Come into the state of being and you find refinance space environment satisfaction in that.

And just be. And then the other thing you said is very true. A very important enlightenment factor is joy. I is a state of mind. And you want to cultivate that state of mind. There's all these other un hold states of mine that lead to un hold some thoughts on holes. Speech on wholesome action. But Joy, Jelly is L. Joy is Troy with state of my that because it produces happiness and satisfaction that is independent of external circumstances could get relieved to of the compulsive driving for something that's gonna make you.

And it also brings with it. So you're you're not striving to always avoid it always. Things that that you're afraid are gonna make you unhappy in the future, you you. How much of our time is yeah? Trying to keep our future self from let's experiencing some grief. It makes sense to do certain pragmatic things. But they they can happen as a part of being present. Rather than as a part of striving and becoming. So what you said is really true. D? B and be a state joy. I think the attached the body.

Brings up. It did help me a lot when we talked about five. So open. Able to now when something that's going wrong, and I think it's going on with somebody body. And happening all the time different ways. I try to say. So going through another process. Let's wait and see what happens. Because it's very easy for me to make. This is a role for this is a heart attack or good fall down or, you know, I'm gonna die and that's where loud of fears. It's body attached but bottled attention to the body. So I think me there's a lot of work involved and could that been my happen for My life is to picture care of my body and worry about what we.

You're just going to your processes. Where she's going to process or whoever it is it's going through his process. Just don't get. But maybe I can give you a little point that might make it easier. When when we use the word eye, and we think from the message from the vantage point of the cell. For for the the self to give up the attachments to the body. It's not going to happen. But for the mind to cease to generate attachment to the body. That can happen. So I I... It's a subtle thing, but... Well, it's it's it words at this point.

And I just have to keep reminding us this thing here. That... This thing history behind this thing. One part of your mind to toast better has to remind another part of your mind that doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's doing is not working. After thinking for so many years. That this thing is The body is the external manifestation of the cell. And the self claims to its existence. And then there's no cell. But there is no sky. And so you know, that's that... That's the reason that i can never give up attachment to my body because to give up the task for me to get a attachment to my body, is for the self to accept this at annihilation.

And the self just walked do that. Or the only time of self? Does that is when we we can develop a powerful craving for nonexistent existence and you know, we put the barrel of a gun in our mouth or something like that. Which is really not any better. But so as long as the self is as long as the cell enjoys this. You know, the mind creates self and the self enjoys. This idea of gets reality it's going to claim to support for that reality. It's not going to be well to give it up. You use the right words you bet that your mind has a habit cleaning to regards snacks.

That's what, you know, your mind claims. There's a part of your mind. Not even your it's not deep mine. Not even your whole line just one part of your, mind, that has... It's its whole function is to... Worry about the body plain to the body. Know And. So you can see that... Oh, well, there's that part of my mind. Up taken down. And it didn't makes it so much easier. So we scared using. I. We use this that part of my mind let's do this. That part of my mind doesn't wanna do that and that part of my mind once want you come over in Yes.

That part my mind is happy, and that part of my mind is not happy. So that would what you would substitute for new supply. That's what a i do. That's what I do. And if that works for you great. But when you're speaking to somebody? When you're speaking to somebody, you can also use that language. Mh. I'll point out to you that nowhere in the suit do I see the Buddha saying This part of my mind does this and that part of my mind does that. Instead what the buddha does. Is he's turned them all into into Da supernatural beings, so point or another.

He doesn't say, one part of my mind keeps saying, why bother why bother keep doing this this his hard. He says, Mara came to me as I was sitting there, and Morris said, said, why do you keep putting yourself through this? And I told Tomorrow. So you see Yeah. That's right. He... That's that's what he does. And our or... I even know if he says I. I'm not sure. I... I'm saying I'm not really good. But if you look in the sutra, you'll find buddha house conversations, with Terry Prominent, all kinds of da mara.

There's a whole pant of mean if you look at it from a point of view of understanding the nature of the mind, you say, oh well that's that's that part of the Buddha mind. But Here's here's one part of the buddhist mind that says I don't bother doing this. It's not worth of trouble. And then brahma comes and deals before him biz. Well, that's another part of the mine says the wait minute. So you know, i I say part of the mind. But you find... You find you know part of the mind words for you, then that's great.

Works for me. But the buddha used mara bra and Davis and things like that. Of course, he was really familiar with. I she it Well, and it's good that you discarded if you laid them to risk as self existent entities, the interact with you as a self existing entity. That's really good. Now you might resuscitate them as a way of thinking about parts of your mind that is more comfortable or you can use pricing? Make up some. Vape have your own things. Yeah. There's another book by Steven and bass, which is called living with the devil.

And it's all about Mara. The buddha is relationship with Mo. When you look at the sutra, got his The entire record from the day it was in light months three to a few weeks before his death. He's having conversations with Mara, which are recounted, you know, well a bit easy for us to see that. Part of ourselves. The negative side. Yes, we could give it a a i had many conversations Yep. Between those parts like that. But the overall part that we call i find it find. Your must speed one over overall times with all these parts part.

The other thing that the buddha does. Again all of the... And all of things ppe, very, rarely says high. And he never refers himself as me he always referred to himself as the tough target time. Or something similar, like, sometimes he uses rather size. As the buddha. Yeah. He refers himself as the buddha person office is target the first himself as as the one who has been blessed or it's translated into English because the trusted one, which bounced self, but i I have great confidence with Buddha was not going around a Himself like by saying.

You know, it'll it'll be things like listen to the blessed one when I tell you told such question. I think the one who has been less, you know, it would be a less self. How say this divine. But trying to keep this out cell up. The the the nice thing about to target on needs gone to such. Gone to. Such is ultimately our such it's all session is the un reality that lies behind the appearance multiple. And so to say that the target says would you like to come to t. Same, not me, but both of our reality speaking through these five aggregates.

This ultimate reality. Think about that. I I think that's very interesting. That i I thought about that before because he always refers him himself as d to Target the one who has gone the site. There is a musician prints. Change name to a symbol. So everyone had to refer to as the musician formerly known as Prince. The being formally recognizing itself as to says. So you get data people, where you get, like, emails from them and stuff, they're like, you know once fancy. What? They call themselves, like, once on Stephen, since they team.

I see. What nancy would like to? That's that's pretty good. But it is a powerful device to you know, experiment find the way and suits you just to do it, but to get a away from anything that con takes a separate cell. I was just thinking about positive aspects of being distance solution. The positive aspects of association. Because you get to look at different aspects of yourself. To me my understanding of that as i witness one of my daughter that's what you're just described. Yep. You know, being able to identify with the different parts of.

Yeah. That's very interesting. It's the essence of the practice of mindfulness. Practice of mindfulness is to objectively observe. What. This piece of stuff is due. Right. It's thinking. Worries. Hold sorry. You practice your mindfulness without judgment. What you see is the way it is, whether it's whether it's what you had hoped it would be or not, think we talked enough which didn't meditate I hope this is think felt and hey i apologize for taking. Wasn't too.

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