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Stronghold September 5 – Patanjali’s Samadhi & How Karma Works



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I was talking with a a friend about some the prescriptions of meditation mean adobe time su? Yeah. And in the towards the end of the first chapter it starts to lay out different stages of meditation. And the commentary was talking about a stage where use your meditation objects. Release the name of the object and you use the understanding of what it is. But you still have what gets for the wisdom revealed object. Mh. And then another state after that, where The wisdom of the object seems to expand the time of space.

Mister. And I was wondering, I have no framework for where that kinda happens and that's something you deliberately do or whether it's just observe from when they're talking about some stage? In the advanced jobs whether that's something i had been little while since I studied times both. I I think that what just gone by your description here rather than my memory. Your description fits pretty well with what I believe naturally happens during meditation. And I don't think this there's any intention of trying to make the happen.

But is a point where your perception of meditation object. Becomes increasingly less conceptual and more more direct. And I believe that what that issue should referring to. And is is that not something that you've experienced yourself? The first the first stage where the name and knowing the object that chris potentially seems to be this the stage after that is is beyond time and space. So really like... Because the best one i feel like sometimes I experience. But beyond time it's place, we'll approach what they were referring too or if you have a building trick to juice...

Well, there there's two possibilities that occurred me in terms of things that I'm familiar with that commonly happen. One happens you know, it's not at a really advanced stage at a point though we're by very closely observing. A meditation object. It first it, it loses its conceptual qualities And then at some point, it it dissolves into what is really, it's fundamental nature if you're looking at sensations of the graph. It become go through stages where it becomes just sensation, recognizable sensations, label sensations.

But you lose the of of breath and and things like that. It's just the sensation. And then there's a stage beyond that. Where it becomes just more a from a very fine very refined vi. So phenomenon and none, which you have to make a distinct mental shift in order to bring it back into focus as as as even sensation. And that is something that I think could quite reasonably fit the description of being Beyond time and space because it as a vibration phenomenon certainly ordinary sense of location and passage of time.

You know, the the the vibration is it's not something that you're seeing the unfolding god the system constant right the vibration. So I could I could see that particular description being applied to that. Which is a very important thing. Is what you're what that's often referred to as is the direct experience of of the fact that everything is just slow that or form. It's just pure sensation and that's the mind, but constructs any sort of meaning why when sort of you need to but that's a very important and significant kind of thing to see and meditation.

And care such, it would be, you know, worthy of being described and we had potentially. The other thing that occurs to me i could refer to is... Now this is something usually happens with a really strong development of san. And it is the... It's the ne is used to enter the d genres. It's the mental counterpart to meditation object. And it is... Well, if you think in terms of What I just described where sensation resolves into this continuous fundamental nature of of pure phenomenon. And then on the other hand, where the mind has taken and constructed that into something that's meaningful such as as this is the in ingress going in the nose and this is the.

Out of netherlands stuff. Very highly very complex conceptual. There's a sort of a middle point there, which is where it's pre conceptual, but it is the mine's counterpart to the sensations. It is it is where the sensations are registering in the mind. And the way that they register is that, you know, the the sensory information arises and passes away very quickly. And if it weren't saved up for a period of time by the mind, so they could assemble meaning out of it. And it would be no whole... You know, it's like hearing musical piece one note at a time.

It doesn't sound like music Right. And the same way with sensory information, you know, that it it has to be has to be saved so that the line can construct something meaning out of it. This is the mental counterpart part. And it optimize the the center. It's not it's not conceptually recognizable. It's pre conceptual but it is it is four and the sense that it has been assembled by line into it has application to form. So it is recognizable yeah. As as since perception. Not as a conceptual possession but a sense perception.

And it usually tends to be it's not isolated to any anyone sense. It's it's still in a very general kind of form. Now that, I think would also very could very much be described as a point that has transcend both space and time because because the way the wine store this, for example, you will proceed if you're using Breath as an object when the... When mis arises. Who tend to see the whole breath at once like quite a process it's repeating Or if you ever scene and a oscilloscope screen that maybe was showing somebody's part repeatedly.

And we'll make the same trace over over again, but chase says fade out entirely. It's just being continuously refreshed. And so it's the time in that sense. You're if you're using the breath all object, the whole breath is there as the object it's no longer, you know, unfolding sequentially. Through time in the way we would normally perceive it, but rather just being refreshed with each new input of sunscreen information. So that's another situation that is really quite normal at a more advanced stage in meditation that I think about that description it.

So those are the two possibilities that occurred to me. Off the top not dead. Interesting to go back then. Three good translation and potentially, I had a good translation that was the commentary and she see if I can see what... I'm cannot with something different when I go back then. Alright. In general, they're... The description and potentially they he uses he uses different language. Because in in that particular system, they've actually taken some of the same words and they interpret that the meaning that they one them a little bit different.

But it really is a very good description. Of the meditation process and pretty consistent with what you find in our resistance. Thanks sense. Well, you know, I've been I just picked up the power which is follow to that's, which I did. I believe all the stuff that's in there but I I had to difficulty reading that but. But the power didn't little more interesting to me. And I've been sharing it with my students from our is the power... It's called the power. It's it's a sequel to the secret which...

Oh to the secret. No. We started it video. I think that Yeah. The power Need no. Secret. But we haven't seen the power not Okay. Well, I just picked up the book. Remember the. One of the things that she says in there is that. Whatever you gave you receive anything can imagine matter what it is. Mh. That's another time. Whatever. But i least thought it came back to you ten times break. That's how it seems to couldn't me. I mean again. That's really good. I'm get a really nice thing. So I... You know, I just wondered about that.

It's bad If there a a level act which against they come back, or is it just vehicle? Well, you mean, is there is there a multiplier effect in there? Yes it it was always... Whatever eventually she, was always greater than what I said out and I positive me response action. So for miss Deep, Mh. I'm they seem the project and i lot more power them, then I feel I sent them out. So I... Yeah. In there a multiplier, they're not Well, Yeah. That we it up. I I think that probably. Picked it up alright. But...

There is and Okay. There is a way in which definitely there's more than one process going on and they enhanced each other. So the two kinds of processes. One is your actions and the obvious effects that they have on those people on things and beings that you had acted. So that's one part of it. And the other part of it is everything you do affects you internally. Affects the way you are. So now just to illustrate that. You can. You can do things to harm other people. And other people can do things that aren't weird.

But you cannot cause other people who suffer nor can other people cause you to suffer. The other half of that is you can do things that are beneficial to others and others can do things that are beneficial to you. But no one else can make you happy, and you can't make anybody else happy. So there's two different things here. Okay. And I need to ask so I can do something that hardship you. And your your body or some other aspect or what identified with as you will suffer some injury because of that.

Whether you experience suffering as a result of that is completely different. Story. I can't cause you suffer by what I do. You and your your Karma, your past came to experience and and thoughts and imprint everything else. Can make you be a being who either suffers as a result of whatever harm or injury be falls to you. Or not, So these are two separate things. You see that? Well, are you saying then that how I think about what you did is what would make me separate? That's that's right. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, not in a simplistic sense that that the thought that goes through your mind, you know, you say, well, let me think of about there well, he did this. Blah blah... I mean, that can play a role. But that will only play role if something deeper is already present that allows you to look at this in such way that you can let go of the suffering that might have caused you. I'm really talking about the deeper part of of this that makes that immediate thinking possible. But we can call that thinking too.

The way through all of your thinking and all of your attitudes and and what's behind all of your behaviors and past. Makes you be a particular kind of person with a particular of mine. So if I do something to you, You could have conditioned yourself so that you're immediately overwhelmed by unavoidable suffering. Or you could be a person for whom that just chose right by you. And, you know, you feel sorry for a news for. Doing things like that. I don't really... Because I don't realize How much harm i'm doing myself.

But you don't suffer as a result of it. So, yeah. It's how you how you think about it how you feel about it? How you emotionally mentally respond to it determines whether use suffer right? Not what I do. Okay. So when you go through the world, doing. Your actions are going to cause. Harm injury or else they're going to be beneficial in some way or sometimes they'll just be more or less neutral up. The peep and add all of your actions are going for produce reactions. But come back you and on form or another.

Right? And Sometimes those reactions will come back to you sooner. Sometimes they'll take a long time to come back. They will have... you know, it's like like, one of those root goldberg things where this causes that causes that plaza. Somehow sometimes to go through a lot of different steps. Sometimes all the different steps that it went through might weekend. The reaction that you experience. Sometimes they may amplify it or multiply it become stronger by the time the reaction comes back to you.

Okay. So it can go either way. But let's look at the other part of it the internal part it. Whatever you do, Regardless of whether it causes harm or benefit to other people or he is more of us neutral, it involves... You you do what you do because of the way you are thinking and the attitudes you have and motivations you have. So if those are... Those can be having either their positive sort or a negative sort. And those Those thoughts and attitudes and motivations are forming who you will be in the future.

So in your actions, view are creating the kind of person that's trying to experience those results. Now if you think about it, your own experience, what you've seen in the world. A person who deal reacts with anger. Does it say something out of a feeling of revenge. Experiences sense of satisfaction as a result of that. See how they have formed themselves. Each of each of those events has shaped them. And as as a result of having thought those things done those things and experienced that satisfaction at the discomfort of the other that they were able to induce by what they said or or did They've shaped themselves in such a way that now they are really vulnerable to that same kind of thing can back to them.

So now if that person it is now insulated in their turn, becomes angry says it does something. And now it comes back to them. They are going to be injured even more than they would have. If they hadn't reinforced these negative text their mind. Is that does that agree with your experience and what you see in the world? And the same thing, the more open and loving and getting a generous and caring that we are and our responses to other people reactions to what happens circumstances that come up. We shape ourselves in a way that makes us much more resilient, less vulnerable to that kind of injury.

Things like that. So this is where the multiply multiplication effect comes in. So whether what you actually did after it makes the circle and comes back to you could be stronger it could be weaker or, it could be the same. But everything that went on inside of your mind, is making your internal reaction to that when it comes back to you. That's where the amplification takes place. Exactly. Yeah. So it's always going to be amplified because there's two different processes taking place. And one is creating who you are.

And that's why it's it's always good... You're you're making yourself the more of this kind of person who is less affected or more of this kind of person that's more effective. Welcome. That was a good question. I Is it good. Oh thank Good question. Good answer. Yeah. And it's a good thing to remember that when somebody does something that causes harm to, that when you if you suffer or something that, they may paused the harm, but you post the stuff. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So... And so this has a tremendous effect on how you respond to it because if you own...

If you own the suffering as been, the result of your own actions, your environment, then you're motivated to do something to change yourself. So that you no longer are as like the agree that's suffering for you. But if you take the mistaken view, that... Oh, this person that caused me harm as responsible for my suffering. Therefore, I'm gonna get back at. Just both internally and externally you guarantee that you're gonna get more the same. Is just what in the bible during the other cheek is all about?

I I think turned the other cheek would be a very... I I think it's It's referring to how you would react if you have this understanding. If you have this kind of understanding, then you you would turn the other cheek rather than strike the person who know, if somebody slaps she turn the other cheek. Right? If you have this kind of understanding, yeah. You would turn the other cheek. So it is why it's fun. So you nice driver with that block. Why would you turn me cheek? What is the benefit turning the attitude?

There is a good question. Well, and unless... So have one that's unless there's a deeper understanding, there's probably not much benefit. You know, I mean, you get somebody's slaps on the cheek. And you say that allows you son that she. Yeah. But I supposed to turn the other trick. Yeah. Man. I hate there guy. You know, It hasn't done any good at all. No. So it it it it it it doesn't work unless you have if you unless you have them understand. But it would seems to me that whether you have the understanding or not, you practice that model practice the fact that eventually you'll start understanding.

I mean, some something... Well, you would think so. If you adopt it there's say now and I'm gonna always the other cheek, you know, after a while you say, I've got to figure out why I'm doing this. Well, you would start seeing different things happening. It's like her. Yes. Great. Start to see something happened. And for sure, get to you even with no understanding, if you turn the other cheek. The kinds of consequences it's gonna produce are really different. You know It's turned the other cheek as opposed to strike back to the other person.

We all already know what the consequences are striking right at the other person. So turning out the cheek is gonna produce a totally different kind of consequence in the long run. It's going to produce a completely different kind of reaction to the on that saw you were slapped and turn the other cheek. They're attitude towards you. It is now different. And so there's many different ways that even behaving in that way out of ignorance is is probably to be better than behaving in the usual way out of the same as.

K. How about that saying kirk me one shame i knew me twice shame on me. Well thing. Part of it, I think the part would be your own understanding giving your own statement. Stuff. If we formed of not south. Otherwise, see it this be a battered trick, Mean that's right. If you if you if you have very poor idea of yourself, and then you just let somebody cheat meeting nine that then you're, you know, knocking yourself down. But if you turn the other cheek and you do it from an understanding cell of at the the divine person who understands the rage of this other person and doesn't want them to have the bad karma oh, you know, the he doesn't want you move things or that.

It lot of that depend on that... How what you How many words or so Well you're absolutely right. There are a lot of people who unfortunately, You they they have a kind of medical disorder, allows themselves to be repeatedly abused. And and we have to recognize that. We have to recognize it that the biblical ammunition to turn the other cheek doesn't mean allow yourself to be abused. It doesn't mean that at all. And nor do any of the buddhist teaching. This is something that's came before. And I was doing darren talking and retreat and is strictly in the context of Buddhist teachings is the concern that does this mean that we allow ourselves to become victims.

And it absolutely doesn't. And there's validity in that You said her hurt me wants shame on you hurt me twice same on me, which is, yes. If you're a rational reasonable person, then you don't continue to put yourself in situations that allow the sort thing to happen, which is also... You gotta keep in mind it's harmful to the other person as well. You know, if you if you allow yourself to be repeatedly abused, you're you're harming the other person as well. Their tendency to abuse, is being reinforced each time they do it, and it it's so that's a allowed to happen so consequence.

So you're harming both yourself and the other, the person. I don't think there is any... I don't think there's any intention and either the the biblical saying or any of the buddhist teachings that that we would allow ourselves to be victim itemized unnecessary. You know, I they they... When we say turn the other cheek picture I have in mind is it. Somebody is addressing against you and, you know, rather that strike back. You would turn the other cheek. But if you have the opportunity to leave and not be struck again, that would make sense too.

You know. And you'd be you'd be doing them a favor as well as yourself. So I it's sort of implicit understanding when I that I have when I think of that is the only reason you'd turn the other cheek is that that removing removing yourself from a situation or otherwise bringing in m to violence activity isn't under a choice. It it's saying, turn the other cheek instead of continuing the on your side. So back to her original question where she is asking about, you know, it does, you know, this card or.

Goodness multiply when it comes back to you. I mean, it's like... Ga rin and his thought. But it basically says, like, if you're doing this, thinking that you're gonna achieve Merit, you know, get it Yeah. Yeah. And and I quite like that. So... Yes. And then is that is the subtle mistake that I think we find in the teaching to secret. I don't know a about the power, but in secret it was all about your there is this divine law and you're gonna learn and manipulate it to your advantage. And that's that is that is a distortion.

That's that's not the idea and direction or appreciate rights. If you're going to go acting in a positive way, because you think you're making merit you're and get all these rewards, back. Or forget about it. That's not how it works. If you're doing it from the right motivation, you're going to a tremendous word because the internal transformation bring about through yourself. But the worldly round ramifications they're there, that they're relatively incidental, and there's no guarantee you know, and you may be dead long before the benefits of your actions come back.

Well help. So you you know, you you go around saying, okay. Well, I'm gonna go do good things so that good things happen to me in the future, they you missed the point, and you're gonna be disappointed. Right? So I agree. And it it does have to be it just has to be a natural login thing to do without thought of benefit Yeah. And that's part of the whole thing about our working consciousness. Yeah. That if you're doing anything, mostly for yourself. Mh. We're not then you saw new. That's right you're not.

So we have she thinking what is my motivation here. This from my. Only or mainly? Or is it... The is it for the whole. It's at successful. Yeah. So that's along that line and they say that I think in all the, which you do things. Just for your... Because it's gonna come back to you when When you start out. Let's start out yeah no mean they start out that way, probably with children and people just coming into the path to understand what... Those around comes around back. Hey. But then if was... Should you get into that too much, you you're not thinking about where you are what the world is what the cold universe is and you just think of about.

Be back where you work. That's right. You're back for you Where... Katie works. Yeah. Any thought that you now that reinforces this idea of Being and separate itself, that's accurate. Is is harmful. It is un hold in a necessary essence and it's moving you away from where where you'd like to go where you best be going. And, you know, there's a a su teaching of the buddha to the kilometer, they said, All these different teachers come. They all say this is the right way and ours is the right way and all those other people didn't ignore them.

They don't know what they're talking about. How we supposed to go? To know. Le buddha gave some some guidelines, which are in much more ordinary language. He says if this is if this is benefit, if this is beneficial to other contributes to the common bridge. So on the forth, than all of those teachings, but you know, anything that basically anything that's selfish and doesn't doesn't is not good for others then say wait. You could also i'll... If if I was gonna give the Buddha these say the comments over again, I'd say, you look at those teachings and If there's anything in those teachings, they reinforce your idea of being a secret self, stay away from.

That's that's watch out. We are each a fragment of an ind individual hole. Shrouded in our illusions. And anything that strengthens those illusions is is going to cause that fragment the invisible hole to sustain suffering as a part of the illusion, they illusion becomes stronger in suffering the kind of dropping. Not it doesn't really have much way? That's right. The best come watch. And love is love is a mysterious word with a lot of meetings. But, you know, don't they all kind of point to this one way unity, or shared.

Oh, and I like like, I mean, i'm sure it the viable person gave. I I like what If Bible said that it's not not it's total vanity. How that that. It gets sits. Yeah. And stuff like that. Pride pump and that. Understood. Correctly please. Love love is all, love God, love does he answer. I'm understood experiencing. Yeah well. You start with where you are, and you realize that Where you are is perfect. It's where do you... How you evolved that is and important? You know, that we all have already have buddha in nature in us.

And it's not going to change. It's already perfect. We're not we're not trying to take our nature and change it into something different. It's already there. And that food nature is everything. It is It is the one that we're talking about the entity. The rest is just the collision. And we perceive this. As a process that happens over time. Oh I'm was suffering d diluted individual evolving to become this this buddha whose mood and nature has fully realized, and from whom all the illusion is fall.

And like, and we see this as as a progress over time. We say, oh, that's the perfect end result and this is the tainted stained in perfect present. But if you take the time that you If you take the time element out of it, or at least if you look at the tie differently, you can see that it's perfect in every stage. You take the completely opened blossom. The flower. It's completely bloom. It's perfect. It's all of its colors are there, you know, and all of the brilliance and and all the internal structures, the in the statement and everything, you know, it's just absolutely perfect.

It's excluded it. It it could not be that way without having been the partially open but the unopened the tiny type but the the color strap gray green looking little walked on the end of the stand. It had to go. It had to be that in order to to become fully from flower. What we are what we are now is is perfect for what we are now. It's what we we he needs to continue our evolution and do that with degree is splits up. How do we get there? Probably record remembering that. By playing the roll the weekly play.

In the in the perfect culmination of such steps. Which as we are a part of that, and we kind of enrolled, but not saying that this is what I'm about saying now is, a truth to be held onto, but it's a it's an as if. It's as yet. In order for such to be absolutely perfect. It needs to develop naturally experience all these different. Ways in order to arrive at as perfection. And so no matter where you are, and no matter what your faults are, you know, you are a part of that whole, and you are just the part of that hole that needs to experience things in this particular way.

At this particular time in order to evolve with that alternate connect protection. What's that? Always what all was holding exactly. Yep. Yeah. They they the half of that is very often when somebody somebody teaches along these line. Somebody says, well, If everything's perfect, and I've already a buddha inside. I don't need to practice. Right didn't anything? There's no point. But the answer are you still suffering right? Yeah. Yeah. I if you are, then there's still something or you to do. It the the you suffering may be an illusion, but it's your illusion.

And that illusion can do something about itself. So So on the one hand, don't don't judge don't be discouraged. But the be happy be grateful, you know, and throw yourself whole wholeheartedly delay into your personal spiritual evolution. That's what the one teaching right. And. The idea is that That's so it's just this bad to throw up your hands in the spare as it is to say, well, if it's already predetermined, it's gonna turn l. I i'm like bothered even trying anymore. I was it. Be the same old head I lost You have to play your role.

That is part of the perfect. Right? With something in between those two things too. Been hair over and over reject trying trying to our struggling, manning a goal, having any idea of when you're getting to pay all that doesn't work. Yeah. Well, that that's part of judging that... Yeah. K. Do you need... You know, it's it's interesting. He need you need to be diligent. You do need to make effort for.

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