The Mind Illuminated archive

Stronghold 11 July 2010, Seeing Self in Others



Automated transcription

nobody else You're so reliant. I just Oh we've got so much. Have here. Well, I... We're we're all concerned I think about coming to the place where we see all rooms as whatever everything's totally connected. Yes. You understand to to experience. How all beings are connect how every you know, universe is connect. So I'm gonna ask you to speak about some was now we can come to that. But showing surely and then dials also to say that the my some other people have interested interested in the mind calendar are setting up a conscious convergence on seventeenth of july.

I'll be able to have gambling there works that today. And it's stella up for the purpose of reminding has all about. And ties up with with the harmonic convergence nineteen eighty the seven into the next stage of. Our evolution. But anyway, when I wanted to ask me was if you have some ideas. I thought How would. More understand and experience our connection. So if I have any ideas about how we can more understand and experience the wave in which we're all interconnected. Well, In a sense that's a lot of what we're doing anyway in this time.

You can speak to doing that on the intellectual level and doing that on the more of and emotional or two with training and level. I think I think what's most effective is as the practices are the the thoughts and experiences that we have which are on that deeper promotional and level. But I think, you know, thinking and the intellectual part of recognizing are interconnectedness plays an important role and helping bring that about. With? The most direct thing that we can do in terms of our own experiences when we looked at somebody else.

And we'll we talk to somebody else and we interact with somebody else. To try to be in that place of seeing that they really are robots. They really are seeing ourselves in them and seeing them kind ourselves and seeing that the that the mind wants to create the apparent differences aren't really there, you know, So if you know what I mean, It it's it seems as though what our mind automatically does. Is it takes reality and divides it out, but first then all these different parts then categorize ice it and it's just the way our not work.

And so we talked to somebody in the person that talking to and becomes the other and we dwell on the differences which are really quite superficial and we overlook the same this, which is really most of what's really most of what's there. And so if we can practice saying ourselves, and okay. And saying memory ourselves. Then, I think that that that's one of the most effective things that we can do and realize that were all one. And of course, this goes beyond just other people, but We're curious being in the sense that our existence is mostly in the context of other people.

You know, other kinds of veins in the rest of the world is just sort of somewhere out on the fringe of this world of person of person interactions. But the same thing is true, but we can see that we can see ourselves in other beings are will people and we can even see that the answer connection this extends to the entire world to the to everything every part of the world, every aspect of it. I mean some of this has spent more time than others, thinking of the world as a living entity and maybe even going beyond that and and thinking of all of all of the physical universe the sun and planets and stories and everything that that this thing is has a whole incredible process that's on unfolding and to the degree that you can look at at all of what you experienced that all the the experience of the world from the viewpoint of our senses and our reality.

Has been the same dynamic growing evolving thing create a process of that is the way that we actually are experiencing ourselves internally then that helps to to helps us to recognize that we are not separate and and the of others that allows us to to action ways that are not very wholesome is it becomes more transparent. So I'd say seeing yourself and others and then extending that to saying yourself. Know not any kind of mystical magical just the reality that our ordinary mine ordinary present ordinary sense was present to us that we are all interconnected with plan why every every plant and animal and part of us and every other person that we interact with is all part of a hole and to whatever degree we can honestly and clearly look inside ourselves and then look at another person or any other manifestation in reality.

Then we can start to see that's setting thing. That's one approach I suggest. I'm glad that they're doing this consciousness conversions. Because at least for those people who are receptive to it and interested. Yep. It means that they'll they'll be spending some time in that place of recognizing recognizing being consciously aware at the same time of one that's. Our individual minds. You know, they we have this experience of having these individual models that are so separate from private people, But you know...

That's not really the way it is. Already i'll all bind is connected and all consciousness was not only just connected. It's also the same. It's all it is the saying. So a convergence of consciousness ultimately is an illusion because you know, the whole can't converge on itself. But our experience of separate consciousness is can converge. I me they're talking about any enough people being aware of this to to elevate the consciousness of the whole you know, since we are all connected them. This will affect every.

Everyone especially as we find when we're doing our with medications together, there's there's more energetic power available. There's more more it's more. And that's because our minds really aren't. The separate entities that they seem to be. Yeah. I'm not quite sure how to ask this question, but I try and really worded it disconnect myself. When I proceed to be evil. From people from evil. Okay. Well evil people that the evil that they're doing, and I try to associate myself with different kind of people.

So Yeah. And I don't understand how how to feel connected with the person like haven't seen my myself. that's a very... That's a very good question. It's a very important question. On the one, hand, it is what you do is good and it's very I I'm pretty sure I got picked. I listen to some of these recordings corrections always. Very clear. But hopefully come of expect. So. But you said you said that you try to dis yourself from evil and from people who saint doing things. They're what? They're drive they do.

Yeah. People that are are i'm kind but people acting stuff for later in ways that there other people and so forth that. And that's very important. It's good to do. I mean, Is no question. We are influenced much more strongly than we realize or there are other than we often realize. By the people that we're around. And so one of the things that it... That we really do need to do is to try to associate with the best kind of people we can't and to minimize the time found in the contact we have with people that are thinking and behaving and doing things that are on a strong word, but, you know, seems it is.

You know, sometimes sometimes he did. So... Yeah, I mean, For one thing, you don't wanna be around people like this, more than you can help because of course, you may become the target of some of their actions. But even if you're not the target of some of their actions, you you you cannot really help but being influence by down. I mean, the positive side of it is you're if you're a good person, you're probably going to be able to have some beneficial influence on them. But but still, you know, you have to you have feel very careful.

So it's a bit insane. To avoid contact more contact than you need to have with people that with evil or people that are and on Pulse. Right. But the other part of it, you know, it's it's... I can see. It seems like well, if I'm going to try to separate myself as much as I can, Well first of all, this involves some kind of discrimination that... Okay. This is a person that I do wanna be around and this is kind of person I don't want it be around. Which is a kind of judgment, which is very much for mind doing or it always does is is dividing up and categorizing, you know, and of course it leads to using this person as in no way like yourself.

The more clearly, your mind perceives them as and on host or an evil person. The more distinctly different they have become a near mine from how you see yourself or how you would see how you would liked to to sit yourself. So they're is the problem. So on the one hand. The buddha Advised all of his followers, you know, that the most important thing is good and local companions. And to to avoid, as much as possible and hold some companions. But that but taken by itself, that's that's a very incomplete.

Way saying thing because it creates more separation and isolation in your mind and difference. So the other part of this is that the buddha also taught compassion. And the importance even seeing those who here from a viewpoint of compassion and understanding patient. This is where seeing yourself and others. Because it's not as though any of us. Have not done these kinds of things. You know, as... Jesus said when they were going to stone the for Adult let be ammonia is without Sand cast the first stone, you know, which is just illustrating that that whenever whenever you see Evil or un hold this, you do have those seeds in yourself as well.

And you have maybe not to the same degree as what you're saying. But whatever is motivating that person's action, you've had those same motivations. They are a part of view it as well. And the value of seeing your cell phone and others and others in your yourself, is that rather than just creating a distance and a barrier and a separation from people that you though. It it there is this two two sided process that as you can see that, yes, I have those seats. I could be thinking in that way. I could be acting in that way.

I could be doing things like that. Then this this to the degree that you can do that, it gives you more understanding. Of the other person. And it allows you to feel more compassion rather than hatred or version. And that... That's the connection. The other half is that usually, if we sync somebody who is engaging in some kind of undesirable behavior speech. The tendency is to condemn now and to put up a blind so that we don't see that that's part of ourselves. And exactly what dick the opportunity that gives us is to take that blind down and say, you know, saying goodness like God thank whatever that that.

I'm not doing that. But I can see that I could, and I can see that I have these seats and I see that I need to watch. And to be mindful and to work on the part of my myself which could eventually. Lead to lead in that direction. I'm same yeah. So we don't get example. We we'd looked We're out I know that you know, people that... And and, you know, there's a lot of political contentious in this country, and there's a lot of religious intolerance things like that. There is a lot of greed and exploitation and There is with within the society a strong component that believes that but pursuit agreed even at expense of other people's suffering is to be admired.

And so we can look at those things. And we can see the wrong of of the kinds of things that people are saying and doing. And we can look at the impacts that having let's see that the wrong of of the effects that it brings about the destructive messing along the environment that obstructed this on. People young children and people that unfortunate in one way or another. So It's so easy and it's not really a very much for the step forward to down them. And to separate ourselves from them. It's much more of a step forward to be able to see.

That even even those people who are hatred and dissent, yeah. Our society, but we are them to they are us. That actually, if this is a... This is a a a really good thing if you can do. It's a little bit tricky, but to realize that from inside, the mind of rush live bell, it feels exactly the same as it does inside the mind of Margo. Help me. That was the name that came to my. There's no way I know no. But... But you know As he speaks, I think I'd be older. Mh. Bye bye. Yeah. At the deepest level underneath at all, the light of consciousness that eliminates the experience of every person is exactly the same right of consciousness sense.

That's not different. And the constructive sense of i and the inherent sense of h is only... The... Well, the inherent sensitive of blindness of self, but is the same in everybody. Your feeling of being self and employment the prime of and using and terry is and nancy and everybody else's We all... You know, exactly identical. You couldn't tell that feeling apart if you did somehow. Examine and experience the the sensor line that manifest in each person. It's exactly the same. It's the same eye looking out of every set of eyes.

The constructed sense itself to the same way it only differs in the most superficial ways in the deepest sets, the constructed sensor of i and Rush Lin bell and I am this kind of person and, you know, at it's deep level, it comes just the same meat. I want to be I want to be happy I want to be free from suffering. Life is full of dissatisfaction as the urge to do this or say out or do this, which is exactly the things that he does. Are all coming from the desire to relieve his own suffering, give his self image a sense of meaning in purpose.

And, you know, to to bring his subjective sense of of of self and experience of satisfaction or happiness or feeling adequate fulfilled good, not less than somebody else, maybe better than everybody, I what we call concede things like that. But those are all the same. All those parts account. Are you and then and every person. Right? It's just at the most superficial level, how does... And and that's where understanding and wisdom and that. And that's also where lot and compassion come now. The more understanding and wisdom known is in one of these individual entities like you and me and Rush.

Then the more differently, we're going to manifest as an individual entity in our actions. And in our behaviors and in our thoughts. And the more love and compassion where is in us, the more differently we're going. But at the root, we're all the same. I was wondered things like what's it like when, you know, the the state execute murderers and very often family and witnesses and people I had invited to attend the execution. And what an experience be, you know But in that moment, you know, when when they see this person that's been lang on death road for nowadays, it seems to typically be about twenty or thirty years.

Blindly taking this final walk and being strapped into what or kind of apparatus they're using him. Think do they in that moment do they feel their common humanity? You and do they experience any sense of probably saying this of their self food or are they completely in that place at This is a evil hated other but is and I was wondering. But, you know, we... No battery know, I I apologize to Rush. We're using him pretty example, but he just offers himself. He does. I. I I can't. I or blind that.

Yeah. They offer themselves, but, yeah know they they might not appreciate it, but heard i don't. But anyway, it's not just now. That the world is full of pieces of people that should a greater or lesser degree. We find ourselves in this situation. That there genuine things about the way they think can act speed. That we we see as being on hold or perhaps even evil. And that we need to separate ourselves from that aspect of it. But at the same time, we don't need to do that. Because after all, if we can so completely separate ourselves to either, this is this is where our potential for hatred vengeance and violence and everything else comes from.

Right? For or lot throughout human history. Young men sat out to work have put themselves as they d their enemies as beings bile evil, creatures as different as possible from themselves, you know, although standing side by side, you can't tell the difference between the the young man and the two armies. And the mines of each side, these are are are trolls and ugly evil beings and baby heaters and, you know, whatever else they can must up. So that there's is no same and therefore they're capable of data so forth.

And this is what we're doing all the time. That's part of the problem in this country. You know, if if Ford rush could see himself and and and you, then they would be so much better for him. Thinking you too that the way we greet each other, you know, we just say hi or long then would my say and lock it. Yeah. Cash blockage. And that means I am another yourself. And then the answer is i came, and that means, yes. I'm another yourself. U. And then we have this stay. Not Yes. Which is, know, value to someone or using this is a way of reading people that's not i ari, you know, like I mean, it's just kind of a reminder.

Though that's those kind of thing. It is. And should it should be and, you know, when we do this, it shouldn't we it should remind us every time that that we're honoring... Well, on one level, it's really good to say you know, I see myself and you and I see you in myself, and that's wonderful, but there's an even higher level. It's not mistake. Is to realize that this... Myself and yourself are both illusions, what is in both of us? And what I am honoring is is the the divine for for lack of a better word that would define.

That that's... I I see that that the most the highest and most revered and and the ultimate truth the, you know, as buddhist as the Buddha nature you know, he's saying that I recognize that you... That the buddha nature in you that you are you are a station of the buddha nature. And that... And and we've discussed before to this seeing everything as connected is then the next step. After that. Mh. It seems like you almost have to get that set first, and then get to the one where you're know or not.

You might not. Yeah and nothing will. Right. You know, that the all of these the stations out here are know coming from mirror. Yeah. So it it seems like it's a two step process way. That's right. It is. It very very much stuff. And up until a certain point, we we are in in step one. And step one is is we are still experiencing ting. Yeah. You know, like queen name says ultimately, There is no thing. Ultimately, no thing exists. You know, But first, we have to see everything as interconnected because we still seen separate as we still see thing we still proceed in that way.

But when we can see that there is no thing then at that point, all the separate the all. Did we have that's so fascinating that I understand it. In our bodies with the whole universe every Yeah. Every cell it's communicating with every other cell. Every that whole bigger connection inside the body is going on at the same time. When we we think ourselves as having separate everything separate in our body, you know, only have our heart and our liver and knowledge and stuff. But it's actually the systems and as you've pointed out to us our brains same way.

It's systems. It's not solid thing that we've been taught. You know We have a head. We have all the screen matter stuff in there. It's actually always always different the whole body. It's like that that's how we can keep remembering. You know, I keep trying right now. They're so I'm so too. Just acting, you know so many years, just going and doing and being separate Yeah. So just... But yeah you realize that then you know, you know, the they tibetan call the path of her deterioration for use the same word for meditation and situation or so forth.

But we could take that and para it. So it's really the path of deep situation. You know you come to the state of realization and wisdom, but you've still got of mind has all these habits habit ways of seeing and banking. So It's really the path deep maturation. So back. Ultimately that way, it seems meditation is the only way. Get. Well, I have to say. Oh, no. And it's... You know, I'm I'm dealing with a couple of things right now. No One of the things that I've noticed is that there is no level to rise to there's only being awake and where to get whenever it is.

And all of our thoughts, that we're sitting here describing all of the stuff. Just really keep us from being there because It's true silence or meditation that we understand. Mh. And and even that is like, giving it too much definition. It's just You know, By try and figure something out. I wanna let go of something that I'm pointing onto to you. Some perception. I had to stop my mom. And it's going with blank stop start self guard, star start. You know. But if I can get to that central place, so where nothing has happened.

You get to the skill line? Yeah. Right. Yep. But you need to do that not just when you're meditating. But You time Yeah. First you do that on your. Right. Yeah. And you're also... I wasn't sure Exactly where you were coming prime know what he said, We totally with what you said. But are you feeling like what we're talking about is all at the level of analytical thinking. No. I'm... No. I'm waiting. What I'm experiencing by listening an incident that happened me where a friend a former friend decided that told me she was not having an more people like me and lives.

Nine. With that for about twenty four hours and then and now I start seeing what we're talking about to that the other. Mh that there is no other. That what Margo was saying about when she's the other she's the other side of ru or you know, that we can see that shaw were coming at something is the same thing, but it's specific whatever the perception is it. Yeah. I don't know. Just words just make it. So made. They that you know, because words are creating a model reality and closing themselves between the reality that we're trying to understand.

Yeah. You're trying to capture something, but can you? Yeah. What I was i wondering I, I'm glad that you clarify that. That's really good. Because this sort of a caveat that we started have to add to dna Anytime we have a discussion like this, or any anytime you find a a book on a spiritual thing when you read it, that the part of the brain that speaks and writes and the part of the brain that hears the speech and reads the word, is exactly that part of the brain, which thinks and analyzes it. But nevertheless, it's the most effective way that we have at least at this particular level to carry out this kind of communication, but we have to not mistake the the finger pointing at the moon for the moment.

Cell. We have to not mistake the verbal processes for what they're trying to on this towards, which is the more immediate experience and and on the knowing that isn't filtered through an analysis and concept such just c... Some level them, I grew or something and I can't remember definitely no it goes but the essence of it is now I can see the room i'll burned down. Yes. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah I owe one money sprint down Bar... Barns turned down. Now I can see moon. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Save line.

So I'm I'm getting a glimpse today. Having burned the i'm down. Right. Have had had the barn burned down. And as the other alternative is, you can't see the moon at all. All you see is the barn that you no longer have. Which the other thing I like about that, I do is. And I think we have the words exactly right, When we're very, very close, but it's they that total acceptance, you know, there's no grieving at all for the burn down barn or. No blame for it who or whatever whatever else that could've done down.

It's just like... Well, no boring. Look at the man. That's our. That's really work. It's... It gets so much easier with practice. Well, I can eventually see man. I Now what You know. Yeah. First just say you're bar this no longer there, and you see your barn that's gonna be there when you rebuild that pen. Still don't. I even get to the move faster. Yeah. Take me to the moment. I think as long as we're sharing what we're getting, that's one thing. But if we're sharing it in the of validate our experience, that's a that misses the point of.

Mh. What meaning? I think it has to do if not trust or so. Some you makeup words and drop pictures and whatever to make it more real. Really is just what it is. Sometimes there's... Yeah. Sometimes there's that. The need for validation, somebody else to confirm because you you doubt. Although I think that most often happens is if we build up know, the the language that we use to describe spiritual experiences and realization and and wisdom and things like that. It's a lot like advertising. Right.

Right? Yeah. And if he soak up enough of that, There's this... It's like a part of your mind that that you know, it sees this in these too good to be terms and has trouble accepting that the also realization can be utterly simple. Okay. And and and all those flower descriptions still apply. Right it create... That's where I think the doubt from is is same. Your dual thinking fabric fabricated mine has created a fantasy here what is going to be like to attain any kind of insight. And so you attain insight and then you have to go and look for confirmation.

I mean, so That can't happen. And I don't think that needs to happen that a lot of times people you know, seems to me when they realize. That's what Seeing you you're not me. You're i saying. Well, I had this experience is this really what, you know, I I'm supposed to be experiencing and I just imagine that that this is... You know, how doubt. Right? And I can see it people on this way. Like that's the kind of thing we're talking about The other only thing though that is the mind the mind sees wisdom done realization understanding as a kind of of trophy.

Right? Test accomplishment that's a feather in the cap. So a lot of times, it's not even working or validation because there's doubt is looking for recognition and acknowledgment. Very often know that happens. They should be asking from a place of doubt because they really haven't. Long and what they captured is an or a or a copy of the wisdom that they're they're seeking. Or mind sound agents? Probably describing this wonderful insight they have to the entire audience. You know, while seemingly asking for validation from the teacher, You know, what they're really doing showing up I won.

Got my trophy. You Got prize, and very often what they have is a photograph, price that they printed it out off the Internet could say file about it a lot and they listen to all all the tapes and stuff. So just stepped in that process too really, no We've been where get to quick price. You think you know. Yeah. And then after a little while we're thinking you, then That's that's. Yeah. Well... Yeah. On in in both of these kinds of situations, when you when you think you know, and, you're waiting around a picture of the sharpie, after a while, you realize that the picture of the trophy hasn't really fulfilled the need that you proceeded it for in the first place.

And the same thing the other way, if you if you had any line insight, but you've doubted because your mind is generated expectations, then the same thing. After a while, you come to this place of well, this is so fulfilling but whether it is or is not what I expected it to be doesn't really matter because it is what it is in itself. The insight and the understanding and the What's right where the the liberation that it gives you is genuine and it's real and it's unmistakable. And so as you continue to experience that, eventually the doubt evaporates in the sense of That's saying well.

I don't know. Whether this is what everybody's talking about or not, but I don't really care. It's what I needed. And and and and it's fine not to know. Because the other thing is that there's always more. You know, it seems like there's always of more.

You can edit the title and description of this talk to help us organise the content and make it better searchable.

Edit talk