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TCMC 20 May 2010, Part I Q&A Modes of Practice, Dullness



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credentials and trying to develop a state mind which is still a free of randomly period. And the other approach, which is just allow whatever arises isn't into the mind to rise it in mind. Just being aware of it. It seems that if the appears there's a contradiction, you've been both given. As means to develop cha I so. It seems and When i when I can open the mind to allowing, just open the mind to the meditation and that meditation does, seems to support spontaneously you take knowledge as that rise, it doesn't seem to be tracked for the dips as meditation.

It seems like deliberately trying to encode bind to one object. Stops the depth seems to be like a false. Back it. Why. Okay. Well is there a number of things that Now like you said, first of all he's said I not had trying to... I don't know exactly How said. I think it's trying stop random thoughts time. I mean I just wanna go about stopping. Yeah. To well, initially need to If we look at what happens, we see that that there's... At least initially before you train the line at all, there are all kinds of thoughts arise.

And even actually he trained your mind. You haven't meditate for twenty four hours even sit down. And it was just all kinds of thing raising one after a another. What we... What what you know from the training is that the all these different thoughts if you don't attend it. If she don't allow the mind to keep chasing after this phone and now, let me grab onto to this one. Actually allowing to start to take hold of the line then you send thirty seconds or a manager or whatever is processing that.

If you don't do that. Then after a little while, the thoughts arise and they just evaporate almost as fast to say time off. And the data don't come as often. And the the... This is the result of not attending their thoughts or not getting in that kind of mental energy that both sustain the individual thought and fuels the process of more thoughts verizon. And there's two ways you can do that. One of which, I think is quite a bit easier from most people. The more difficult way to do that is to just say, I'm not going to attend to any of these songs.

And that's more difficult to do. Or you can say, well, I'm going to choose one particular thing to attend to. And meditation logic object and just preferential focus my attention on that until these are thoughts razor cease to be exposed strongly president and spell frequently chris. And they may not disappear entirely. And that is the value of using a single object. Is entirely as a means. To attaining that kind of stability in the mind. And there's two parts we find when you try to do that. But the mine doesn't lose to stay.

I don't it's... You know... And it takes some training to get to the point where you just stay on one thing. So that's one part. The other thing is that we just notice this constant creative of different thoughts and ideas, and memories and emotions and everything to keep coming up. We realized that There's an awful lot of mental activity going on this out of sight. And all those different processes Their agenda has nothing to do with your conscious intentional agenda sitting down talking lot. And as as a matter of fact, each of those processes, regards any degree of column that occurs as an opportunity to insert its priorities in the.

Right? So the other thing... So so one part of it is is is actually achieving that training of the mind itself. Chasing trying to chase that. Or wanting to chase something. And it really is kind of desire to to go. And the other is that we bring about what for... I think the perfect description out this unification of my Forgot. You know, they got to one. A unification I'm like, but gradually, they're on stuck with all these different processes aren't going in some many different directions. More and more than kind pile down what i've on it so get board with what's happening.

Okay. We're sitting down move fighting down now. All we're going to notice and think about and feel about and so forth is this was happening now in the present moment, not it happened you yesterday to what might happened. Have so that unification in mine takes place. So the combination of the training that stabilizes attention and the unification of mine. Completely welcome to those of you. The combination of those two then makes it possible to put your attention on one thing. And you'll find that it stays there and all the background noise meetings begins to quiet down and there's a lot lesser.

But and also, once that's occurred, you no longer you'd no longer have some much need for a single object? There is a point in the training. And and actually, it's when that concentration becomes effortless. Once if you place your mind on something on your meditation object on sensations of the graph. And it stays there. And there's no longer this tendency for it to wanna go somewhere to else correct for for the tendency for to the down. When it just stays there and the mind stays, right. At that point, you don't need one object anymore.

That all? At that point practice, that kind of open awareness. Now initially, what's going to happen say okay. I'm just gonna open to what it depends up. Your money's already quiet down. There's not really many things coming up. But a follow time. And then you'll be kinda aware since gradually, there'll be more and more. And what you're gonna notice, what's special about that? That you couldn't possibly notice tend begin. Well special about it is if happens slowly, sort one at a time, so you can notice the mine's reaction to it.

In the beginning you could because it was just the d stuff coming up. And you had no hope of noticing how mind is responding to any part. Now in this stabilized quiet with the mind unify is now allowing tends to come. You'll notice how the one tends to contract around one thing other. And you realize okay. If to have to come through the open awareness. I need to overcome that. I need to develop the Teflon mind. They write know that things don't stick to it. They just they rise and they cast right through, you know, they had, like, water off a ducks back.

They, you know, by time when they go and they leave on impression and and they don't disturb But there's done this if the line. Alan. Now at that point, you could stay with one object. And it's not the of the process us because really go from there we deep into that that unique experience of absorption and the chance. What you do is just allow yourself to totally go to that single object. The. Their alternative, which I just mentioned is to practices just open spacious awareness on just letting anything come go, but, you know, you you every thought and liberated every sensation, delivery that motion.

At very instant, it enters awareness. So if they're it in however however long west, however many seconds or what it is present before between its first horizons passing what the mine doesn't grant to. Mine doesn't begin to geo on. Other things you can do with... And and now we're talking about all the different kinds of practices. You see, when you can do what I just described, you can now do Mah mud. You can examine the mine was completely still. And you can examine the mind as it moves in the sense that things appear that.

Superior. Soon. Between the, rising and passing away if this thing in the next is the period of stillness and you can examine the nature of the line. Very similar to that is a practice where you stay with an object that instead of absorbing into the object. You stand back now it. And you have the experience of watching the mind as the mind. Watches the graph, for example. And what you're really doing is you're meditating on the the nature of the mind. And and this this is what you're examining this is what you're investigating.

The the the breath and the fact that that Part of the mine, which used the same paramount is still monitoring the sensations of breath. Is is been a sort of a foreground background shift. Because before that, here is a patience of the graph. And yes I see in my now we're going behind, but he I'm really focused on. And Now kind of flipped around, but i'm really aware about mine. Yes, my mind is observing the sensation. Correct. So That's a very powerful product. And then other ways of using the stability at want keeping a onto the things now are rising and passing away much more slowly rather than the the torrent that he started with.

So now what you can do is you can you can focus totally on the individual thing. Be the... This is your object that you're just totally investigating. As it arises and the packed of way and that something else comes out. And so you you move the behind, so it line is hitting on each thing. And it hits on it with total awareness and it sees it's arising and it sees it's passing away. And as you as you do this more and more, you see the arising and passing away of the object and then you see the arising and passing away of the knowing of the object.

I mean you see the rising and passing away, of the object falls rather knowing that the object followed by the the the ceiling tunnel that reduces the mind. And then you keep watching See how this the object and then there's the no of it and then there's the feeling of it and then there's the desire version and whatever kind of response the line and appreciate effect. So this is an only way being. With this All of these different practices that you might hear about and read about, that might sound what they're different.

If she look them carefully what we could see that they all have in common. Is that you achieved a very powerful stability of attention? A very powerful awareness. And the the overall activity in mind is has really slowed down. We can't come quite calm stable comparatively. So then all of these practices have these features in common. And then exploit an different ways. To bring about insight and understanding. So back to the original question, it seems that by focusing on a single of object has configured to by Well you mentioned stopping all random thoughts in the mind.

Combined with it. Was that combined with this douglas just saying how single logic? No to use folks on single long to get to said standard market and it feels natural to the note doubt. Intensity of focus on what i'll object the breadth just relax it. And then the it feels like basically goes into the deeper state at that. And then to return to the breath, which I think for what you describing maybe it's just because I get a big and as pause. And there's nothing happening. So I think i have to...

I'm so used to other logic don't bring but... Yeah. As soon as I bring on back I feel like I drag myself out of that. At deepest state of meditation. Agreed to... Okay. Hold over the sensation of the breath again So it feels like going that anchor seems to call you can pulling out of... Yes. Super perspective. Right. And and in the in in the case that you described, yes what it is is that conscious awareness. Which the focus of which is tension is what once again is being caused to move. You've gone to all the struggle to train yourself, so the conscious awareness.

Stops moving, stay stable. But At the same time, you've habit yourself to always having an anchor. And so when there's not an anchor then there's there's the tendency for attention to start moving to go and find something to focus on. Okay. Yeah. And so what you're experiencing is the loss of stillness. The stillness that you had created. And now now once again, the line is moving. You don't... The mine doesn't have to move. If the mind remains completely stiff and object here. Sooner. And if you enjoy a prolonged period when it doesn't.

You want to investigate that. There's two possibilities. One is that your mind that there is an object and they said your mind has generated a blank slate to hold in front of the elimination of consciousness to create the illusion of object. And, if you look, you can become aware when that's happened. The added possibility is this is the mic completely next. And so you can begin to examine the nature of the mind address. While you're waiting for the next object to appear on its own. So you don't you don't you don't need to go looking for an object.

You can continue your investigation by watching the lieutenant of the moment to look for an object and watching the result of that, which you've already seen. That you see the that it's like, all of a sudden, the mine that still is is not it's not a still anymore because it's just moved. So how does... Is the ripples say created moving? But the thing that you can do is is to you become aware of the has the purge to find an object and you just allow that urge to be there not acting on. But really what I liked about or what do I I should put this I was gonna say, I really like about your question and that it brings in to focus.

What we're actually doing with the training of the like. But maybe more accurate I should say what I really enjoy Breathing out, as a result of your question is that once? The. These all of these different ways of describing the the states of our mind and the different kinds of practices that we can do. That they they can all be understood if you they they can all be as as not being different but it was really being different different ways of applying the same aspects of mental training. You've actually an open awareness, and I know I keep lately, especially, I i seem to keep encountering people that, you know, learned something about open awareness.

And until the mind has trained enough to be still, the way that we were just talking about. Open on like awareness is really not very much more than just sitting there and letting the mind do it usually does think about this for a while. I wonder really after a while worry about this plan. And just being really relaxed and happy with it. And and that's not the idea of open awareness. So because in each of these cases the difference is that the mind is still grasping to and and clinging too. You know, conceal around contracting around each one of these things it comes up.

You know, and then let's go and find something else and always isn't fun. Oh, yes, there's a nice thought. Oh, there's an interesting sensation at my foot, you know. And it it's kind of fun. But it won't stay up for very long after i'll just gets boring. It's like Yeah. What is the point of all at rest? First she asked that too. Both saying the attention on the sensations of the. What's the point of this? At the point in all of these cases is to three attention, so if it doesn't move constantly.

To unify and bind, so the mine not flooded with all these different thoughts and memories raising and clearing and very. Yeah. To do so, without the mind doing without the mind engaging in what it's usual alternative is to to business, which is to the dull and eventually sleep. Yes matter. Of one of the techniques would be that the mind or part of the mind absorbs the other mind. Yes. Working with whatever witness conscious. Yes. Absolutely what. It isn't that you talked another evening about we should not because then then there is consciousness and then the object and it it becomes separated, or did I misunderstand that?

I think you might have understood a little bit. You can have this ex experience of the witness and then whatever arises and passes always he's very same. The experience is you know, i I I fall back on the kinds of things that people have used for years. The objects of consciousness are, like, the reflections to a rise pass away in a mirror. They have no effect on me they don't change the nature of the mirror. And the witness consciousness is not altered it's not affected by the objects that arise in desiree.

When he watched the mind as the mine watches the sensations of the graph. Or if you watch the mind, as a mine, produces. It's it's it's thoughts and and and other your other contacts. Then this is the experience that you have. The imp of the of the observing consciousness and it's and canvas from the objects that arise pass away. And this different ways that the mind can react to that experience. One is to seize upon the witnessing consciousness has... A my true stuff. This is who I... This is who I really yeah which is In one sense it's true, but it's totally false in the sense that there is no separate set.

Right? So and a little bit of a paradox and contradiction there that I won't go into. But the mind will cease to that, and it will identify that that un changing consciousness of the witness, The witness consciousness and said, oh that's my true self. My higher self and self always includes anxiety this is separate. So this is one of things that. The other thing that can happen is that once says. I'm experiencing the emptiness of these objects, you know, because here is they rise and they passed away, their ep, in mind dependent nature, you know, their their non substantial.

So obvious, I'm experiencing. And you really are. But but you are at the same time, you're not experiencing the empty emptiness of of the self because hidden in there is the same eye and see the sample here. Right? So all... These are the kinds of of mistakes that can be made in the case of it. I'm not sure what exactly I announced on the other night that you might have said thought I said that you shouldn't separate them. Expect I was pursuing that that be careful with witness consciousness because we are involved then.

Mh. Watching the mind or the object, and then you would separate again and pick become this stuff instead of losing this self. Right. It is you know, as witness consciousness. It is experienced dual. Even though you're perceiving these objects has been empty of any independent self nature. But you're moving very close to the Genuine perception, because you'd be in see these optics objects as appearance arising passing away as why. And so you're moving it in the right direction. And this is this is I referred to this particular study as a dual mystical experience because it's genuine mystical experience.

But it's one that is still inherently to. And so I get it that. The the Dm the duo experience just to to reinforce the recognition this is not the end of the process. You haven't had the experience of discovering acting issues you haven't discovered the true nature yourself. You are having a dual experience. That Yeah. And then, you know, and then then there's the unified mystical experience. But that's that's the other name that I like to use, sir that you get me And that's where your mind cease us to identify self as separate and has this experience in unification with everything.

And that's a very profound experience as well. And what special about it Is it is also cutting to one aspect aspects of the core of reality, which is the emptiness of the cell. So we're having an experience of the anti stuff. Usually, the unified mystical experience just wonderful. Oh I'm a part of everything. You know, it's... My consciousness is in the walls and the floor and the rocks and the trees and assess this everything this consciousness and there is no acceleration. And what what that is doing too is it's subtly refined all of this, it says all this we're able to hear.

It's it's based as empty. It's only saying the self was empty. Just when you get both of these together let's start it So cell and every else is empty in. Then you would have actually have an experience of the very reality. And That produces a profound effect. So welcome to those of you that came in since I be began talking. And I I always tried to make this period before we sip had opportunity for newcomers to raise questions or people have not been meditating for very long maybe just that instruction a week for two go on about a week or so to raise their questions.

And first what always happens is that I get caught up and answering these questions or more events medi. So right now, please, does anyone have any any other kind of questions that we really wanna how we want to help you with? If either want address for? In meditate for for a little while and you're having some problems or challenges or something's happening that you're not sure about to do with. Okay. You Bring this. So this is really new, but I kind of a meeting and And software distracted michelle how long he's thing done on.

But if I didn't wanna sit, I've gotta a love doing learn yeah. But it's it's so interesting now. And so the two parts... One is like finally even more than used way that practice is to actually people doing the car really all... I it's like just some time tell wish i I don't think i'm a be So the the draw going that doing worse and. It's really powerful. And it's and it's working on he's not that i'm that it's And in the other part that is part sitting here that. Ultimate Yes. And that's exactly what you need to do is to just to keep in mind right, you're ultimate goal.

And the the thing is that it's true. Issue... If you're going to have to sit for forty five minutes an hour, or an hour because some part of yourself has made a rue you have to and if you are On the one hand, very interested in you worked and on the other hand, from the dull and your meditation. Then it's going to be very appealing. To spend that mandatory forty administer and hour doing what interest mainly thinking about your with you find fascinating rather than singing into to dull. But It sounds to me like you're not really dealing with your dull in the proper way.

Yeah. It might not be How are you dealing at when? You sit down? You like fear dollars? So what was the since working When I felt like there's had more mindfulness from there generally, by the states that found there ways into this kind a whole practice with doing this like ways of almost history through an attention and they're dropping by my my kind on focus on the object that I can bring this self out of it. And I tried the methods you should suggesting and that I'm more kinda of eva with, like, question the body either deep breaths and things like that.

More than cli the volume than these lot, and i've never thought any of anyone actually work Friday they extended during the time. Well North really like really strong. So maybe so maybe and then I've been got struggled over then I out. Okay. No. Let me just review the the the the best way to practice. When you realize that dollars is present. Then what you want to do is to yourself completely from that bonus. Okay? So whatever you do, It doesn't matter what you do. Any other things that I suggested or you can think of your own things, But This is the standard to use but if if it...

If you feel fully alert a way, or settlement, say three to five seconds. Then you did inbound. If if you don't have that, if less time than that. If in thirty seconds or minutes, you found yourself sinking into to dull again. Then you didn't route yourself sufficiently. And so this time, browse yourself stop. Okay. That's that's number one. Make sure from the very first what you want to try for. It shouldn't say make sure because of course it's a trial and everything. So But what you want to to try for is from the very first recognition of documents.

To do something that rounds you sufficiently that you're either you're out of it at least for for three five minutes. Okay. And then they come back. And then you just keep repeating. The other thing that is very important is as soon as you have ra yourself from the, then what you want to do your your main object then for the next for the next five minutes or at least until dull does become apparent again is to be alert for adult the reappear. And to identify, hopefully, more quickly than you did last time.

And so, you know, it's... Well, you know what happening. Okay. They the The feedback between your cortex on your branch stat. The key ear alert. They're shifting to a new pattern. Right? And you mean there's a loss of stimulation. So what do you want to you browse yourself and what's gonna to happen is as you sit there in that, you know, two, three, four minutes in that period of time, with your mind home and and not without your eyes open and without seeing like coming here. Then what's happening is this feedback circuit is starting to go the wrong way again and you're starting to put your bond to sleep.

So you wanna notice that as soon as possible. And the more quickly you notice it. And the more quickly you do something that is going to cause those circuits to pump more had urgent neurotransmitters into your heart act, the quicker you're gonna wake up. And the longer would you're gonna to stay way and the easier it is gonna be. So that's why you might catch it as quickly as possible. And that's also like you want to stimulate your mind. Enough. So we've completely interrupted the pattern. The pattern may re itself, but you wanna make sure that your brain enough that you brought yourself all the way out of it.

And the way to tell that you've done it because the time that this pattern operates on is one of several minutes. And so if you can stay out of it for three to five minutes, you know you've you completely routes your brain. So that's what you shoot for. Mh. Then the next thing you shoot for is to try when it the assert itself catch generator and and reverse it earlier. And once again, it's a training process. You repeat this as often as you need to and give and sit. You will often reach a point where you're awake now.

And you those you're you're not gonna slip into developments again and don't for the rest of the. Each time you have done in you practice this way, you're going to you're gonna be more likely to reach that point gonna be more likely reach that point sooner. So eventually, you're gonna train your your brain and changing your life not to go in all. And so that's that's what that's what we should be doing. He shared when you sit down. You shouldn't be saying. All no, Dull. Maybe I'll think right work.

It's Oh, good, dull. I've been needing to work on this. I need to get over this once and for all. Man. And so this is my opportunity. You know, I've got gloves. Sergeant minutes left in the shift to work on. Great. You start to go into dull. Can you lose? You lose your aunt. You lose that retrospective awareness that says, what am I doing thinking about work? And so the next thing, you know you're thinking about work, and that will wait you up again, but now you're forgotten you're supposed to be done.

So you're have to Jamie. Yeah. Well, and I've noticed that definitely come out that you that in general my. That lost technical Jason and i'm not getting already kinda catastrophic my know, temporary, but that's definitely i mean... I mean, that's part of reason lot. I have to still easy for you, tens of minutes for to be just tired barely with the brand and mostly mostly work. It's... Definitely. Right. Sound. So Well, sometimes they can happen that he deliberately decided to do this all this is more.

But my. Or nice. Anyway, let's have... Yeah. As you say, it it is...

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